Under valve cover pic from 500,000 mile Toyota.

[CharlesInCharge]

I’d say frame rot is a big deal, no? These routinely have trannies fail, they weren’t built for the 1/2 Ton truck work that people wanted to use them for.

Fords and Chevys go to half a million miles too. I guess that’s really all i have to say to you.

They rusted due to excessive salt exposure. All vehicles do/did in that era under similar conditions, as a matter of fact. Toyota actually had corporate responsibility and recalled and replaced most of the effected frames.

I think you're fabricating transmissions issues, I've never heard that being a problem in this era Yota.

I agree, some Ford and Chevy TRUCKS can go that distance. You won't find many Blazers or Expeditions with 500k miles, heck probably not many with 300k miles out there. And they don't command the premiums these Yotas command.

 

[nthach]

They rusted due to excessive salt exposure. All vehicles do/did in that era under similar conditions, as a matter of fact. Toyota actually had corporate responsibility and recalled and replaced most of the effected frames.

I think you're fabricating transmissions issues, I've never heard that being a problem in this era Yota.

I agree, some Ford and Chevy TRUCKS can go that distance. You won't find many Blazers or Expeditions with 500k miles, heck probably not many with 300k miles out there. And they don't command the premiums these Yotas command.

I think pre-Prius Toyota was peak Toyota and when it was worth paying the Toyota Tax. The UZ engine was a very good engine at that. The older Aisin 4/5 speeds are also solid and don’t need too much done besides regular fluid changes with ATF T-IV/Castrol IMV(I don’t like the feel of them with MaxLife).

The Prius marked Toyota going towards a throw-away mindset of making cars, almost GM/VW like(and as complicated as a BMW). I still see lots of older Tacomas/Hiluxes and 4Runners around.

 

[slacktide_bitog]

I think pre-Prius Toyota was peak Toyota and when it was worth paying the Toyota Tax. The UZ engine was a very good engine at that. The older Aisin 4/5 speeds are also solid and don’t need too much done besides regular fluid changes with ATF T-IV/Castrol IMV(I don’t like the feel of them with MaxLife).

The Prius marked Toyota going towards a throw-away mindset of making cars, almost GM/VW like(and as complicated as a BMW). I still see lots of older Tacomas/Hiluxes and 4Runners around.

Newer Toyotas are almost as good. While the 90s was undoubtedly the best time for Toyota, modern Toyotas are still excellent cars, better than anything except those older Toyotas.

The only really difficult routine service might be the CVT fluid, but even then, you can probably get away with just draining it cold, measuring, then refilling the same amount

Even their transverse V6 is less difficult to service than in the past. The 2GR-FKS is a big improvement and seems to be much easier and take less time than the old 2GR-FE, let alone any MZ or VZ. Someone here recently posted about the FKS

Also, their newer engines have timing chains rather than stupid timing belts.

Toyota's biggest problem is degrading themselves by rebadging inferior cars like Mazda (rust-prone) and BMW (high maintenance) and Subaru (almost makes the 1MZ look easy to service )

 

[Oily_Thing]

Should have washed that engine before opening it up!

 

[2EHA]

wouldn’t doubt it, 500k isn’t exactly crazy

if it lives an easy life it could be like the million mile lexus. or that one tundra

 

[vavavroom]

The image is very light. Everything that should be dark grey or black looks light grey. In a more realistic representation the oily metal parts would look a lot more maple syrup colored, I think. On the other hand, I don't see built-up crud in the books. Looks more like a 50,000 mile engine.

 

[02SE]

The image is very light. Everything that should be dark grey or black looks light grey. In a more realistic representation the oily metal parts would look a lot more maple syrup colored, I think. On the other hand, I don't see built-up crud in the books. Looks more like a 50,000 mile engine.

A former mechanic colleague of mine sent me pics of a '99 4Runner at 800k on it's all original drivetrain. It's 5VZ-FE is a similar design to the 2UZ-FE in this Sequoia. They are both bi-metal engines, with a T-belt.

Anyway, when the valve cover gaskets were replaced at 800+k due to slight seepage, (just snugging down the valve cover bolts likely would have stopped the seepage, but the customer insisted on new VC gaskets) the engine was cleaner internally than this. It was always serviced at the dealer, with bulk dino 5w30.

I would have no trouble believing this is the original engine.

The reality is that quite a few decently designed and maintained engines could achieve the same thing.

 

[kschachn]

800+K miles??? Okay…

And due to the design of the Toyota valve covers you can’t snug them down really. They torque stop at a certain crush level.

 

[vavavroom]

I though the pictures atikovi posted looked a bit washed out and asked him if it was okay with him if I were to adjust and post the engine picture.

 

[DGXR]

Adjusted photos or not, that engine is extremely clean... on the inside.

 

[02SE]

800+K miles??? Okay…

And due to the design of the Toyota valve covers you can’t snug them down really. They torque stop at a certain crush level.

It is or was owned by a gentleman that services the oil industry in the Gulf States. LOTS of miles, always serviced at the Dealer.

The 5VZ-FE valve cover bolts are known to become slightly loose over time. Gently snugging them down usually DOES stop any seepage.

FWIW, the torque spec is 53 in lbs, or 4.416 ft lbs

Former master tech at a Toyota dealer. This was a former colleague of mine.

Thanks for implying doubt, though...

 

[Dave Hess]

500K?? Looks great! Look at those perfect cam lobes! No wonder Toyotas run forever!

Basic regular oil changes work well for any engine.

 

[kschachn]

It is or was owned by a gentleman that services the oil industry in the Gulf States. LOTS of miles, always serviced at the Dealer.

The 5VZ-FE valve cover bolts are known to become slightly loose over time. Gently snugging them down usually DOES stop any seepage.

FWIW, the torque spec is 53 in lbs, or 4.416 ft lbs

Former master tech at a Toyota dealer. This was a former colleague of mine.

Thanks for implying doubt, though...

I agree they are torqued down but the shoulder of the bolt stops against the head. What I meant was that you can't snug them down to increase the crush on the gasket unless the bolt has worked loose.

And I was coming from the perspective from someone who has put 450,000 miles on one vehicle and 300,000 or so on others. I admit that your statement where an engine had 800,000 miles and "the engine was cleaner internally than this" using bulk dino is incredible to say the least, Toyota or no Toyota. I also thought the idea of no valve cover gasket changes in the same 800,000 miles was unheard of, my Toyota OEM gaskets become hard as rock and start leaking in much, much less time.

 

[02SE]

I agree they are torqued down but the shoulder of the bolt stops against the head. What I meant was that you can't snug them down to increase the crush on the gasket unless the bolt has worked loose.

And I was coming from the perspective from someone who has put 450,000 miles on one vehicle and 300,000 or so on others. I admit that your statement where an engine had 800,000 miles and "the engine was cleaner internally than this" using bulk dino is incredible to say the least, Toyota or no Toyota. I also thought the idea of no valve cover gasket changes in the same 800,000 miles was unheard of, my Toyota OEM gaskets become hard as rock and start leaking in much, much less time.

This was 6+ years ago. So the VC gaskets were approx. 15 years old at the time. According to my friend, the guy was pretty regular with 5k oil changes. I don't know what has become of the 4Runner. It would be interesting to know if the same guy still has it, and if it is accumulating miles at the same rate.

And yes, the VC bolts tend to work loose over time.

For some perspective. I had a '97 4Runner with the 5VZ-FE. Although many fewer miles than the 800k example. At 22+ years of age when I sold it, the VC gaskets had only seeped once, and I just snugged the VC bolts back down. No more seepage.

 

[Hillbilly Deluxe]

We really need to stick with direct injection engines.

 

[atikovi]

Checked the valve clearance on the right bank and all are in spec.

The exhaust are on the loose side of normal which is unusual as on most engines they tend to get tighter over time

 

[KGMtech]

I recall reading many years ago that GM engineers dissected a Honda and Toyota engines, goal to see what made them "better than ours"

The exercise showed no evidence of any secret science. They found top quality materials with good design, and excellent machining. Nothing that couldn't be copied tomorrow if the bean-counters didn't get involved.

 

[Blinker]

Checked the valve clearance on the right bank and all are in spec.


View attachment 69106

View attachment 69107
The exhaust are on the loose side of normal which is unusual as on most engines they tend to get tighter over time

Further evidence that this engine isn’t original

 

[Blinker]

I recall reading many years ago that GM engineers dissected a Honda and Toyota engines, goal to see what made them "better than ours"

The exercise showed no evidence of any secret science. They found top quality materials with good design, and excellent machining. Nothing that couldn't be copied tomorrow if the bean-counters didn't get involved.

I’m not familiar with that one. I do know Ford conducted a rather intensive study on automatic transmissions. Ford compared Mazda and Ford vehicles that utilized the same transmission, the Ford vehicles with a Ford assembled tranny, and Mazda with a Mazda assembled tranny. The Mazda assembled transmissions suffered less customer complaints and warranty claims and upon dissection, it was discovered that Mazda quality control was much higher than the Ford Assembly line. The Mazda parts were in specification, while the Ford parts were often out of specification or at the very extreme ends of the tolerance.

IIRC, GM did a similar study with Toyota/Aisin FWD transaxles back in the 90’s

 

[Hillbilly Deluxe]

Bottom line - Ford, GM and Chrylser/whoever they are this week really don't want to compete with Toyota. If they did, they would. They know that the majority of their buyers have been raised with the notion that you need to dump a vehicle at 100k miles, it's done with it. With today's maintenance being bean-counted as "total overall lowest cost of ownership", the engineers / floor supervisors know they need to provide a product that gets them to 100k. It can basically fall apart then.