Unbelievable KC-10 Takeoff

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I didn’t know this was possible.

Question for you guys who fly airliners - I assume they maintained at least a minimum margin for error, mechanical, unexpected, etc.

But, how risky was this?

Do you think this was approved beforehand?

Do all air show routines have to be signed off on by command ahead of time? If so, what if the pilots deviate from the approved routine?

Would this maneuver be approved today?

 
Military pilots/crews that fly airshow demos are specially picked (often a political process), carefully trained, and the maneuvers precisely prescribed.

No idea if this crew was in that category... Was this a demo? Or just a S.H. takeoff?

Airliners are built to climb with an engine out, at max gross weight. If you're really light, and all the engines are at max thrust, you can get quite a bit of excess thrust. This crew climbed at what looked like a crazy angle, but if the airplane was accelerated a bit longer on the runway, used a low (less drag) flap setting, and carried a bit of extra speed into the rotation and climb, it could've easily maintained airspeed at about 30-40* degrees nose up with max thrust at low weight.

And that's about what this looked like. Very steep for a transport category jet, not usual, but within the performance of the airplane.

You have to maintain an airspeed that allows you to full control if an engine quits in that climb. The speed known as V2 is the minimum at which that's true. I suspect they were quite a bit above V2. V2 is often quite low, like 140 Knots, even at max thrust.


*In a lightly loaded 747-400 one day, taking off out of Denver, I had to maintain 25 degrees nose up to keep from exceeding the flap speed. Full passenger load of about 400 (so, 80,000# of people, plus about 20,000# of their luggage), but only 100,000# of fuel. So, about a 600,000# gross weight, in a jet that was usually at 875,000#.

We were at reduced thrust, at high altitude, but we were light. Take that same jet, without passengers, put it at sea level, and use full thrust, and yeah, I could see a climb like the one in the video.
 
All air show maneuvers are carefully planned by aircrews and approved by upper command. The KC-10 is a quite remarkable and capable aircraft. Best ride I ever had in the A.F.

I was once a passenger in a KC-10 on my way from Okinawa to Hawaii when we had to make an emergency landing into Iwo Jima. We were fully loaded with fuel, spare parts, tools and F-16 engines. We were 35,000lbs overweight for the runway and the runway was too short for us. We barely stopped before the end of the runway which ended in the Pacific Ocean. If that wasn't enough, the take off was another treat. In emergencies rule books go out the window.

If a pilot deviates from the approved flight plan, the following week he will be piloting a UPS truck.

USAF retired 22 years F-16 Crew Chief
 
Airliners are my favorite plane for so many reasons but then that is what I usually say. I just plain love them
 
KC-10 had half tank of fuel, no passengers or cargo so really not surprised it can climb like that.

I do love the DC-10. 👍

Sure. It's basically just a DC-10, which could probably do all that when lightly loaded. There are a ton of military aircraft that are based on civilian passenger aircraft. Here's a good 10+ minutes of a United 777-300ER doing stuff that I'm thinking most pilots wish they could without getting grounded, plus a couple of vids from United.





 
“But, how risky was this”?

Airplanes ( military or civilian ) get pushed close to limit’s or even exceed them at times at air shows.

I have seen at least 3 fatal crashes that I can remember and I am not a person who goes to lots of air shows ( Snow bird, RAF Nimrod, P51 mustang ).

Google the RAF Nimrod that crashed at the Toronto air show many years ago ( USAF Thunderbird crashed same air show in 1966 IIRC ).

Remember the infamous B52 that crashed when pushed beyond its limits and killed everyone on board. The pilot was dangerous but whoever let him fly knowing his reputation was just as responsible. Lucky nobody on the ground got killed.

Would I feel comfortable sitting in the co pilots seat when they push airplanes, at low allied, to the limit or close, no friggin way.

It would be totally different with ejection seat airplanes ( didn’t help one poor guy on that B52 who died trying to eject ).

All that said, on Airbus aircraft, they are designed so a pilot can pull the stick FULL back ( and hold it ) and it will never stall ( unless you have ice on the wings or something ). That DC10 is capable of being stalled if your not careful when flying like that. Obviously they were careful enough.

Edit: look what happened when the Russians pushed their version of the Concorde ( Tu 144 ) beyond its limits....it stalled and broke in half. Paris airshow 1971.
 
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“But, how risky was this”?

Airplanes ( military or civilian ) get pushed close to limit’s or even exceed them at times at air shows.

I have seen at least 3 fatal crashes that I can remember and I am not a person who goes to lots of air shows ( Snow bird, RAF Nimrod, P51 mustang ).

Google the RAF Nimrod that crashed at the Toronto air show many years ago ( USAF Thunderbird crashed same air show in 1966 IIRC ).

Remember the infamous B52 that crashed when pushed beyond its limits and killed everyone on board. The pilot was dangerous but whoever let him fly knowing his reputation was just as responsible. Lucky nobody on the ground got killed.

Would I feel comfortable sitting in the co pilots seat when they push airplanes, at low allied, to the limit or close, no friggin way.

It would be totally different with ejection seat airplanes ( didn’t help one poor guy on that B52 who died trying to eject ).

All that said, on Airbus aircraft, they are designed so a pilot can pull the stick FULL back ( and hold it ) and it will never stall ( unless you have ice on the wings or something ). That DC10 is capable of being stalled if your not careful when flying like that. Obviously they were careful enough.

Edit: look what happened when the Russians pushed their version of the Concorde ( Tu 144 ) beyond its limits....it stalled and broke in half. Paris airshow 1971.
Tu144 could be a book itself with several volumes.
 
Sure. It's basically just a DC-10, which could probably do all that when lightly loaded. There are a ton of military aircraft that are based on civilian passenger aircraft. Here's a good 10+ minutes of a United 777-300ER doing stuff that I'm thinking most pilots wish they could without getting grounded, plus a couple of vids from United.






Boeing had a hanger in Newfoundland next to ours - and were wind shear testing the 773ER.
Talking to one of the engineers … they did 5-1/2 hours on just one GE90-115 on a windy day.
(most days up there 😷)
 
Tex Johnson did a barrel roll in a 707 so I guess anything is possible.
If you know what your doing. He knew what he was doing and never even came close to exceeding any limits G wise. No plane will survive if it’s limits/envelope are exceeded ( enough ). The only limit he pushed was doing something Boeing never authorized IIRC.

Like Clint Eastwood said in one of his Dirty Harry Movie’s.....” a man has to know his limitations”. Same with pilots and planes. ☺️
 
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Boeing had a hanger in Newfoundland next to ours - and were wind shear testing the 773ER.
Talking to one of the engineers … they did 5-1/2 hours on just one GE90-115 on a windy day.
(most days up there 😷)
Used to live there when I flew for an airline based there ( that airline is bankrupt now ) and have flown many times into YYT with my current one. It’s got some of the worlds worst weather in terms of strong winds, wind shear, fog, etc. You can have fog with strong winds and turbulence. Glad they have a cat 3 approach now but have to watch the auto land wind limits which is not normally an issue at any other airports.

It’s one of the few airports where we have to always have an alternate regardless what the forecast says for that place.
 
If you know what your doing. He knew what he was doing and never even came close to exceeding any limits G wise. No plane will survive if it’s limits/envelope are exceeded ( enough ). The only limit he pushed was doing something Boeing never authorized IIRC.

Like Clint Eastwood said in one of his Dirty Harry Movie’s.....” a man has to know his limitations”. Same with pilots and planes. ☺️
No he didn't. You can keep a pretty constant and mild g-force while executing a roll:

 
Military pilots/crews that fly airshow demos are specially picked (often a political process), carefully trained, and the maneuvers precisely prescribed.

No idea if this crew was in that category... Was this a demo? Or just a S.H. takeoff?

Airliners are built to climb with an engine out, at max gross weight. If you're really light, and all the engines are at max thrust, you can get quite a bit of excess thrust. This crew climbed at what looked like a crazy angle, but if the airplane was accelerated a bit longer on the runway, used a low (less drag) flap setting, and carried a bit of extra speed into the rotation and climb, it could've easily maintained airspeed at about 30-40* degrees nose up with max thrust at low weight.

And that's about what this looked like. Very steep for a transport category jet, not usual, but within the performance of the airplane.

You have to maintain an airspeed that allows you to full control if an engine quits in that climb. The speed known as V2 is the minimum at which that's true. I suspect they were quite a bit above V2. V2 is often quite low, like 140 Knots, even at max thrust.


*In a lightly loaded 747-400 one day, taking off out of Denver, I had to maintain 25 degrees nose up to keep from exceeding the flap speed. Full passenger load of about 400 (so, 80,000# of people, plus about 20,000# of their luggage), but only 100,000# of fuel. So, about a 600,000# gross weight, in a jet that was usually at 875,000#.

We were at reduced thrust, at high altitude, but we were light. Take that same jet, without passengers, put it at sea level, and use full thrust, and yeah, I could see a climb like the one in the video.
I so want to fly in a 747 some day. Amazing airplane. You have the coolest job in the world.
 
No he didn't. You can keep a pretty constant and mild g-force while executing a roll:


That’s what I said ( about Tex Johnson ). Where did I say he exceeded a limit with the Plane ( other than not telling Boeing in advance )?

People don’t read what people say on this site I notice. That’s why I try not to post stuff about planes here’s.
 
That’s what I said ( about Tex Johnson ). Where did I say he exceeded a limit with the Plane ( other than not telling Boeing in advance )?

People don’t read what people say on this site I notice. That’s why I try not to post stuff about planes here’s.
I was agreeing with you.
 
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