U-Joint Failure, was it the grease?

zfasts03

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Well I don't know what grease came in the new Moog joints. When I added Amsoil Series 2000 Lithium Complex after assembly I probably greased until grease came out not a full exchange.
 
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Originally Posted By: zfasts03
A few years back I had to change the U-Joints on the front axle shafts of my 1997 Dodge Ram 1500 4x4. (Dana 44 axle) I used: - Moog Super Strength U-Joints (with zerks) - Pumped U-Joints full though the zerks with Amsoil Dominator Synthetic Racing Grease (no moly), prior to reinstalling the shafts in the axle About 3000 miles later the joints failed, binding and getting real hot. 2nd time around I used Spicer U-joints (no zerks) and all is good for years now. Upon disassembly of the failed Moog joints the roller bearings/grease had fused themselves as one. There was no longer any roller action of the bearings and major friction and heat was happening. So since then I am hesitant in using Amsoil Racing grease. Did I do something wrong with installation? Or are the Moog joints not good for this application? The Moog joints seemed to install fine and movement was good without binding when reinstalled.
The Racing grease would not necessarily be my first choice for this application but if installed properly in a surgically clean u-joint would not have failed in this manner. By some accounts, actually this could be an ideal application for this grease. But a few years back? How old was the grease? How was it stored? Hard to say on the mixing greases. I never do it, even with supposedly compatible grease types. Some level of question about the installation, but let's count that as one controlled variable that was good. And lastly we have components with known infant mortality and failure modes that fit your description to a T. Therefore I'm really hard pressed to blame the grease.
 

MolaKule

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I would have recommended Amsoil Synthetic Polymeric Truck, Chassis and Equipment Grease, NLGI #2 Product Code: GPTR2CR-EA for a U-joint application. The polymeric ester and calcium carbonate combination in that grease makes a great, high load, EP combination. If the Moog joint came with a urea based grease that may have caused an incompatibility.
 
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JHZR2

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Could a joint like this be disassembled and cleaned properly? I'd assume no... Would pushing a LOT of new grease through have helped to avoid any incompatibility issues? I'd be doubtful that pumping until color consistency is truly consistent. What happens when incompatible greases are worked together? Do they drop their oils? Clump up? Wonder if Moog recommended a specific chemistry or anything at all?
 
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I put some Redline CV-2 into my new XRF ball joints and tie rod ends, and then they started dripping red oil from the zerks. I kept filling them biweekly until the red oil stopped dripping out. The grease degelled, as far as I can tell as it was not compatible with whatever XRF had injected into the joints originally. I recently had both my U joints replaced and driveshaft rebalanced. Only one Joint was bad, It was a GMB made in Japan. Its bearing cap was spinning in the TX outpush shaft yoke. Got a new one of those too. The driveline shop used greaseable Neapco joints front and rear. The front joint has the Zerk in the middle of the joint, no in a grease cap. My grease gun tip will not get up in there with driveshaft installed. The rear joint is a conversion U joint with a zerk in a bearing cap.
 

MolaKule

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Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Could a joint like this be disassembled and cleaned properly? I'd assume no... Would pushing a LOT of new grease through have helped to avoid any incompatibility issues? I'd be doubtful that pumping until color consistency is truly consistent. What happens when incompatible greases are worked together? Do they drop their oils? Clump up? Wonder if Moog recommended a specific chemistry or anything at all?
Quote:
...When two incompatible greases are mixed, one of two things generally happens: the mixture hardens and will not release any of the oil or the mixture softens and releases all of the oil. In either case, the end result is basically the same; there is effectively no lubrication...
http://www.gdnash.com/mixinggreases/
 
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zfasts03

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The above link led me to this... I believe this happened... When two incompatible greases are mixed, one of two things generally happens: the mixture hardens and will not release any of the oil or the mixture softens and releases all of the oil. In either case, the end result is basically the same; there is effectively no lubrication. Inspection upon disassembly looked like the mixture of greases hardened. This is my conclusion.
 
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Kestas

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Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Could a joint like this be disassembled and cleaned properly?
I used to disassemble, clean and regrease u-joints regularly when I was in high school.
 
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Originally Posted By: Kestas
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Could a joint like this be disassembled and cleaned properly?
I used to disassemble, clean and regrease u-joints regularly when I was in high school.
Those model T U joints did require frequent maintenance.
 
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Originally Posted By: Kestas
It sounds like the grease in your failed u-joint lost its oil and left only thickener. U-joints actually need a lighter grease like Grade 1.5, so it can flow back under the needles during information. There is a good grease for this application. It is Kluberplex BEM 34-132. It is calcium based to resist washout, good for 2000 hours at elevated temperatures, and the product data sheet mentions it is good for micromotion applications.
Agree. My experience in replacing 100's of u-joints has been never use a heavy grease as stated above. Also try to get a u joint with the fitting in the cross not the cap. Once a heavy grease gets hard the joint is doomed. Purchase a quality non greasable u-joint remove the end cap the grease will be lite and oily. I do prefer greasable joints
 
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you noted that its a 4 X 4. did you put it in a lot water with one and not the other?
 
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Something was improperly done during installation or the wrong ones installed.. I have always used just multi purpose grease and greased annually and never had a problem.
 
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zfasts03

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Upon disassembly the grease was solid. Seemed to fuse the needle bearing and grease as a solid. No off roading that would have introduced water.
 
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Originally Posted By: MolaKule
I would have recommended Amsoil Synthetic Polymeric Truck, Chassis and Equipment Grease, NLGI #2 Product Code: GPTR2CR-EA for a U-joint application. The polymeric ester and calcium carbonate combination in that grease makes a great, high load, EP combination. If the Moog joint came with a urea based grease that may have caused an incompatibility.
I have been using this grease for U-joints and general chassis lubrication for a few years now with no issue.
 
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I've never had great luck with greaseable u joints. There's always 1 bearing that doesn't get grease when you pump it in. Spicer sealed bearings, however, are excellent and my preference
 
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I have used calcium sulfonate grease for years and found it really extended life of steering components. However, it has a few grease formulations that are incompatible. The common NLGI 2 products are ok. You can Google grease compatibility if you're concerned.
 
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in the many years of working on all kinds of stuff, when I service what ever it is it gets greased with what I have and have no idea what was in it before as that is not a luxury of being just a customer car etc. I have never seen something fail when it came back for more service later from grease failure or incompatibility that I know of. Most u-joints we replace are oe non grease-able joints as are the chassis parts. Most toyota drive shafts i see have never been serviced until we do a service and they seem to stay good after years of service and greasing so I do think what is most important is a standard good grease used regularly. Sound like the original start of this thread maybe the low quality that federal mogul china made parts. F-M has any many cases lowered quality too much on some products like wheel bearings and ujoints but other parts are still very good just kind of what today's world gives us.
 
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Never mix greases!? How about quick lube places. They only have one grease gun and one kind of general purpose grease if you are lucky. They use it on ALL cars & trucks. Same with dealers. One of my trucks specifies two different grease for different zerk fittings and dealer used only one kind. I've seen it myself. Next time ask a quick lube place or dealer how many grease guns or different grease they have! Maybe mixing is not theoretically the best idea but the failure rates must be very VERY low!
 
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I have seen many people on this thread say the grease was hard but I'm sure when it over heated the grease will turn hard , that is what it always does any bearing after failure the grease is hard and solid.
 
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