Turbo VQ35 & Heat

[Trav]

Quote:
If I were only short tripping it for, say, under a mile a day, and doing so year round, I bet a 0w-20 would be a wise investment.


I wont disagree with that either, i have done this myself on a vehicle that ran under these conditions.
I am not saying put 0w40 in everything but IMO it has its place in some engines and will perform much better than thin oils. A turbcharged VQ or basically a turbo anything are those those engines.

I purchase oil off the shelf, i don't buy this mix some of this and some of that and play home blender.

 

[Garak]

The one thing that bugs me with the G and Z are the lack of oil cooling, and the result that manifests itself when their is trouble. Of course, it doesn't bother me in specific, since I don't drive hard.

I've mentioned it in other threads, but the G and Z will go into limp mode if the engine oil temperatures rise too much. A thicker oil could, conceivably, cause that to happen quicker. Compare that to my old Audi, where the oil cooler's size rivalled that of the radiator. The only time I approached 100 C oil temperature in that car was running significant boost for over half an hour solid.

 

[CBR.worm]

Yes, the newer G's and Z's with VVEL generate a lot of heat in the valvetrain at high RPM, and it is not uncommon for a fun day at the track to end up being limited to 4,000 RPM to control oil temp.

I think this is a major oversight on Nissan's part and they should all come with coolers. I believe a cooler is available, but for a sizeable chunk of money.

BMW had a similar problem when they released the twin turbo I6 in the 335i and 535i. They quickly added oil coolers to 'sport' model cars.

All that being said, we know the VQ is hard on oil. A Turbo VQ is going to be that much harder on oil. I would find it hard not to recommend a 0w40. You have to assume that someone who put a turbo on a VQ is not driving it like a grandma.

And I would probably add an oil cooler if temps get any higher.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Originally Posted By: Trav
Manufacturers in other countries are neither mandated or encouraged to use "energy conserving" oils and encourage consumers to seek out and use oils with the star burst symbol. This is an American politicly driven agenda policy, nothing more or less..

Even Nissan with some later versions of the VQ had a TSB specing a very expensive ester based oil, why? There were issues when people drove the things as intended and not like grandma.

Funny in Europe where 0w40 was speced from the get go on these engines no such TSB was released. That to me is proof enough.

Some people may poo poo these reasons and that's okay.



people can poo-poo your reasons all they want, they make a TON of sense to me.

And if it makes the lightweight brigade feel better, M1 0w-40 is one of the lighter 40w oils!

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: CBR.worm
I think this is a major oversight on Nissan's part and they should all come with coolers. I believe a cooler is available, but for a sizeable chunk of money.


Yep. I performance car without proper oil cooling is a big no no, if you ask me. From my examination under the hood and in the grill areas, there's plenty of room, so they can't use that as an excuse.

@Trav: With respect to the ester oil, it was specified mostly to address ticks in some engines. Nissan admitted that the noise would not affect longevity, but some people didn't like the noise. And I'm sure that Nissan didn't mind selling an over-glorified conventional at $10 per litre, either. It's absolutely not an ester based oil. The UOAs I've seen were also less than impressive. It exhibited more shear than any other 5w-30 I've seen in that application.

Up here, they use Mobil Super 1000 conventional, Mobil Super 2000 semi-synthetic, and Mobil 1 as service fills. Ester oil is available by request.

 

[Trav]

I never used the ester stuff i have seen the less than stellar UOA's on it also.
I have heard a few of these engines tick on 5w30 but when run on the 0w40 they were silent.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: Trav
I have heard a few of these engines tick on 5w30 but when run on the 0w40 they were silent.


Probably true. Mine's as quiet as a mouse on PYB 5w-30. I can guarantee you, though, that if it were making noise, $10 a litre OEM oil would be near the bottom of my list of choices to remedy the issue. I'd go for GC or M1 0w-40 first. Heck, I'd dump Delvac 15w-40 in there before I'd spend $10 on that ester nonsense.

 

[Nick R]

Originally Posted By: Trav
I never used the ester stuff i have seen the less than stellar UOA's on it also.
I have heard a few of these engines tick on 5w30 but when run on the 0w40 they were silent.





I've had the opposite experience. When I still had my cavalier, it was quieter on thinner oils. Maxlife 10W-40 had loud idle and deceleration ticking from the valvetrain. The next loudest was Maxlife 5W-30, it was much quieter and less frequent on PP 5W-30, And then I used Havoline 5W-20 once, and Castrol Edge 5W-20 another time, it was completely gone. It ran best, and was quietest on 5W-20.

 

[Capa]

Perhaps your issue was with Valvoline and not the thicker oils

 

[Nick R]

Originally Posted By: Capa
Perhaps your issue was with Valvoline and not the thicker oils

No, because it still did it on PP and QSUD.

 

[Trav]

Apples and oranges. We are talking about a Nissan VQ engine with a sophisticated valve operating system and relevantly high output. Thicker oil is not going to reduce noise in every engine just like 20w isn't.

Every engine is different and needs to be treated that way.
You cant be biased to thin or thick oil although a little thicker usually wont result in a blown engine but too thin sure might under the right circumstances in some engines.

I wouldn't consider using a heavier oil like 10w40 in a Cavalier unless like you i was trying to accomplish something like getting rid of noise or reducing oil consumption.
The it may go either way as you found out.

Depending on what the noise is will determine if thicker or thinner will help if at all.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Originally Posted By: Garak
Yep. I performance car without proper oil cooling is a big no no, if you ask me. From my examination under the hood and in the grill areas, there's plenty of room, so they can't use that as an excuse.


Isn't it sad when the bean counters ruin a great car design by eliminating a 50 dollar part that is nearly essential to long life and high performance?

 

[Trav]

Quote:
Isn't it sad when the bean counters ruin a great car design by eliminating a 50 dollar part that is nearly essential to long life and high performance?
It sure is! They could have done away with the cheesy chrome plated aluminium wheels that all peeled 3 yrs in.
If they would have used used plain polished clear coated aluminium instead and added the cooler it would be much more beneficial and probably cheaper too.

 

[abycat]

I dont think a 40wt will give any more protection than a 30 wt. A thinner oil will shed heat better and his extra sump capacity and his most likely aluminum spacer will also help. Id run a good 30wt syn and call it a day. For the record I do side with caterham. You always provide info not opinion. And my nissan dealer also pours mobil 1 into everything.

 

[Garak]

Steve and Trav are right on the cooler and the stupid wheels.

The thing has a nice power steering fluid cooler, with plenty of room around it for an oil cooler. If they want to be "bean counting" and eliminate the oil cooler, perhaps do so on the sedan, but leave the G coupe and Z with one.

 

[Trav]

First you say this. Clearly an opinion.
Quote:
i dont think a 40wt will give any more protection than a 30 wt.

Then you say this..
Quote:
You always provide info not opinion

Which is it man?
Do you suggest straight 30w in this car?

Show me some evidence the Mobil 1 0w40 holds more heat than 5w30.
Mobil 1 0w40 is far from being a thick oil.

Edit: I didn't realize there is any side to take. He has his opinion and i have mine, there is no right and wrong although some would like there to be.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: Trav
Show me some evidence the Mobil 1 0w40 holds more heat than 5w30.
Mobil 1 0w40 is far from being a thick oil.


I'll sidestep that issue, since I have no horse in that race. If I were to go Mobil 1 after warranty (I'm not doing 3750 mile synthetic OCIs, that's for darned sure), I might lean to 5w-30 over 0w-40. That's only because we don't get the large jugs of 0w-40 up here yet.

You know, that's another thing that bugs me. Those who actually need M1 0w-40 or GC tend to have vehicles with large sumps. Why saddle them with 1 litre bottles?

 

[Trav]

AA is now selling 5qt jugs so it might just show up in other stores eventually.

Seriously i would love to see a chart showing oil temps of various weights and brands, not just how low or how much better this and that is against 15w40 dino which is typical of advertising "test" done in Germany.

 

[Garak]

You mean what temperature an oil runs in a given engine under given, steady state conditions?

 

[Trav]

Yes. For example this engine at operating temp same driving pattern, same duration and ambient temp with different weight oils.
Not easy i'm sure but maybe some folks who track their cars and change oil frequently may have some info that is close.