true source of oil comsumption pics

[Bill in Utah]

Originally Posted By: JohnBrowning
Bill, I agree with you I always say that useing synthetic is not about wear reduction that is all about the additive package and HTHS combination. THe lower the HTHS the more additives you see look at 5W20's. Synthetic is all about how clean do you want your engine to be? How long do you want to be able to run the OCI out? How much better will it is start in artic cold snaps? Bill my point was that in lue of $.49 sent Dino I am preety sure I will be able to fin Dino close to $3 a quart not counting gas stations. If I went to a gas station or my oil I am sure I could find an SM dino 5W30 would cost $4-$5 dollars but I am going to limit my self to Automotive Parts stores. Now if I have to chose between $3 Dino or $4 synthetic guess what I am going to shoose. In fact Rotella T Synthetic 5W40 at full retail price at Walmart not on sale or discounted is $4 a quar or $16 for a gallon jug! Currently PP is on sale for $3.98 a quart. M1 is $4.20 a quart at Walmart fullprice if bought in the 5 quart jug.So synthetic is a far cry from double the price if you have to pay full retail price for your dino.


John,

At Wal-Mart if your looking at the Mobil 1 for $4.20 (at my Wal-mart it is $4.57 ($22.88 jug) then look at the Mobil 5000 for $8.97 for 5 qts (which is $1.79 a qt).

Or look at the QS for $9.97 a jug (which is $1.99 qt) or Pennzoil YB for $10.92 5 qts ($2.18 qt)

All of those are close to 1/2 or more.

The above prices are close to your Wal-mart.. (unless they only discount the Mobil 1 in your area)

So if you are going to use Wal-Mart for your $4.20 Mobil 1, please use Wal-Mart for the conventional prices and not some gas station $3-4 or auto parts store prices.

Apples with apples please.

I think you will find syn costing what I said (close to twice or more over conventional)

I've never found a Wal-mart that sold only syn.

I guess with hundreds of thousands of miles on my engines without ANY issues clean is not a problem. Or what about the other threads that show clean spotless engines that have run conventional oils?

I start in cold temps for many years without problems. My sister lives 30 miles from the Canada border and never ran syn. Her cars are fine.. (over 200k a few times)

Take care, Bill

PS: we are so off topic, sorry to the OP!

 

[lazaro]

thanks for all the replies, I will update with pics of the rest of the engine.
this engine was running fine when crashed, I bought this car from the original owner and dismantled it myself.
I left a note in the mailbox, 3 weeks later I get a call, he has to sell it or the county will junk it. $800 I paid for 1994 Cobra.
owner said he drove it every weekend for 10 years from miami to orlando and back.
the drivetrain was still all good and useable so I stashed it and opened up the engine to see how it looked inside.
The original owner worked at goodyear and did his oil changes. dunno what gas he used though I imagine 93 octane but I really dont know.

 

[lazaro]

so bill let me ask you a question, your quote here
Quote:
I'll call everyone who has more than (oh, what mileage do these "deposits" start hurting the operation of a engine that runs on the crummy conventional oil?) and tell them to get ready for their engines to start burning large amounts of oil and run poorly.

this tells me you think these deposits do not cause any harm to the engines condition?
Am I reading you right?

 

[Bill in Utah]

Originally Posted By: lazaro
so bill let me ask you a question, your quote here
Quote:
I'll call everyone who has more than (oh, what mileage do these "deposits" start hurting the operation of a engine that runs on the crummy conventional oil?) and tell them to get ready for their engines to start burning large amounts of oil and run poorly.

this tells me you think these deposits do not cause any harm to the engines condition?
Am I reading you right?

What I am saying is first of all you do not need to run syn for engines to last a long life with no problems.

I do not tear apart my motors unless I have problems. Only had to tear apart one for head gaskets twice (at 61k and 108k) and they were spotless inside. No varnish no tint nothing.

It was a rent a car for the first 21k miles and I know that Hertz does not do OCI right on the book or use any expensive oil.

Over 30 plus years that was the only engine I've torn open. All the others are running or been in accident and totaled.

So if conventional oil is so bad (according to you), I should have seen some issues. That engine just passed 150k and is fine.

I don't buy the deposits on the pistons just because you run this type of oil.

If that was true, nobody would make hundreds of thousands of miles on engines like they are.

Also it looks like you don't know the total story of the engine or maintenance of the engine and pistons you posted photos.

I'd say everyone here does better maintenance than the previous owner did on that mustang.

People who care for their cars don't leave them around for the county to threat to tow away.

I think $800 you got a good parts car. Prob make a lot more on ebay selling parts.

 

[Gary Allan]

Bill,

You've got an exceptional driving status ..and you over maintain your vehicles. I just don't see anything remarkable in your results.

In essence: Anyone could have the exact same results under the same conditions doing the same thing. They could probably have the same results doing half of what you do. Taxi cab and police fleets do it all the time.

I'm looking for the iconic zen guru dali lama truth here.

It's not like you're the only path to enlightenment.

 

[Bill in Utah]

Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Bill,

You've got an exceptional driving status ..and you over maintain your vehicles. I just don't see anything remarkable in your results.

In essence: Anyone could have the exact same results under the same conditions doing the same thing. They could probably have the same results doing half of what you do. Taxi cab and police fleets do it all the time.

I'm looking for the iconic zen guru dali lama truth here.

It's not like you're the only path to enlightenment.

So what do you think of Mobil 1's Taxi test?

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Bill,

You've got an exceptional driving status ..and you over maintain your vehicles. I just don't see anything remarkable in your results.

In essence: Anyone could have the exact same results under the same conditions doing the same thing. They could probably have the same results doing half of what you do. Taxi cab and police fleets do it all the time.

I'm looking for the iconic zen guru dali lama truth here.

It's not like you're the only path to enlightenment.

So what do you think of Mobil 1's Taxi test?

I prefer their million mile test

 

[Gary Allan]

What about it?

 

[buster]

The argument/debate is just silly anymore. The performance gap has closed quite a bit IMO.

The GF-5 spec will possibly make all oils somewhat "synthetic" in terms of Grp III usage.

Mobil 1's taxi test was just to demonstrate that:

Quote:
xtremely Demanding Driving Conditions
- 22/7 operation
- Average speed of roughly 18 mph
- Long Periods of Idle Time: approx 3-to-1 idle vs. drive time
- Extreme environment
- Cold, dusty conditions in winter < 30° F
- Extreme heat in summer > 115° F


Yellow Cab's Test Vehicles:
- (18) Chrysler 300 2.7L DOHC V6
- Minimum of 3 vehicles per oil

Test Conditions:
- 105,000 miles minimum
- 15,000 mile oil change intervals
- Evaluate engine wear, cleanliness and used oil quality
- Monitor oil consumption
- Complete third party engine evaluation and reporting at end of test.

Lucky Cab's Test Vehicles:
- (10) 2005 Toyota Camry's 2.4L DOHC 4 cyl.
- (40) 2005 Chevrolet Impala 3.4L V-6
- 3 oils tested
- Minimum of 3 vehicles per oil
- (4) 2005 Toyota Prius 1.5L DOHC 4 cyl.
- Two oils on test
- Two vehicles per oil

Test Conditions:
- 105,000 miles minimum
- 15,000 mile oil change interval
- Evaluate engine wear, cleanliness and used oil quality
- Monitor oil consumption
- Complete third party engine evaluation and reporting at end of test.

The test results speak for themselves. After 100,000 Test Miles with 15,000 Mile Oil Change Intervals, Mobil 1 Extended Performance validated a number of qualities:

- Exceptional wear protection of critical engine parts
- Engine bearings and camshafts with only a trace of wear
- All critical engine parts well-protected by Mobil 1
- Excellent engine cleanliness
- Deposits control on valve deck, oil screen, and other key parts
- All internal engine parts with only light deposits
- Extended drain capability in an extreme service environment


Bill what is wrong with the testing above? What makes it not as good as Adaptive molecules, 4-ball wear scar or Castrol's torture test?

 

[Bill in Utah]

Quote:
only light deposits


I saw more than light deposits in their poor video shots.

I would have thought (and have been told here many times) that $6 a quart syn would have no deposits. ("deposit control" is the word)

Esp in only 105k miles.

I agree it is silly.

Them comparing their syn run 15k with conventional for 15k. (wonder if they ran their Mobil 5000 for the test? Their oil they they say run for 5000 miles?)


Take care, bill

PS: We still agreeing to disagree?

 

[Bill in Utah]

Quote:
Bill what is wrong with the testing above? What makes it not as good as Adaptive molecules, 4-ball wear scar or Castrol's torture test?


It is all DUMB...

 

[buster]

Quote:
We still agreeing to disagree?


Of course. A better comparison would have been against Amsoil and more video shots. I never said other oils couldn't perform as good or better here.

 

[Bill in Utah]

Originally Posted By: buster
Quote:
We still agreeing to disagree?


Of course. A better comparison would have been against Amsoil and more video shots. I never said other oils couldn't perform as good or better here.



Or even better Valvoline Syn and PP!

And take it out to 200k miles...

 

[JohnBrowning]

Bill AutoZone was where I was at tonight and the most expensive all dino oil was Castrol GTX 5W30 $3.39 a quart the cheapest was Coastal and AutoZOne brand at $2.19 a quart. Valvaline MaxLife Synthetic Blend was $4.49 a quart. Mobil-1 one was on sale so I am not going to include it because between the sales price and the free M1 oil filter it would make a low ball number that wouldnot mean anything so I am going to go with a higher price then AutoZone had for Mobil-1. Walmart Mobil-1 is $4.20 a quart in the jug and Rotella-T Synthetic 5W40 is $4 a quart in the gallon jug and Valvoline SYnpower Synthetic is $3.80 a quart if bought in the 5 quart jug at Walmart. So please tell me how I am wasteing my Money again? Remember I am only useing full non-sale retail prices on al the oils and no rebates!

Even better bill explain to me how the guy useing Castrol GTX 5W30 is saveing so much money over me useing PP,M1,RTS or Valv Syn etc..... I am not even counting anything crazy like BOGO at AAP or anything like that. We do not get $.49 dino oil in Michigan!

 

[Bill in Utah]

Originally Posted By: JohnBrowning
Bill AutoZone was where I was at tonight and the most expensive all dino oil was Castrol GTX 5W30 $3.39 a quart the cheapest was Coastal and AutoZOne brand at $2.19 a quart. Valvaline MaxLife Synthetic Blend was $4.49 a quart. Mobil-1 one was on sale so I am not going to include it because between the sales price and the free M1 oil filter it would make a low ball number that wouldnot mean anything so I am going to go with a higher price then AutoZone had for Mobil-1. Walmart Mobil-1 is $4.20 a quart in the jug and Rotella-T Synthetic 5W40 is $4 a quart in the gallon jug and Valvoline SYnpower Synthetic is $3.80 a quart if bought in the 5 quart jug at Walmart. So please tell me how I am wasteing my Money again? Remember I am only useing full non-sale retail prices on al the oils and no rebates!

Even better bill explain to me how the guy useing Castrol GTX 5W30 is saveing so much money over me useing PP,M1,RTS or Valv Syn etc..... I am not even counting anything crazy like BOGO at AAP or anything like that. We do not get $.49 dino oil in Michigan!


John, Go back and read my last post to you. That will explain to you what I'm talking about.

You did not read it.

Ok, I'll make it easy for you.

Quote:
John,

At Wal-Mart if your looking at the Mobil 1 for $4.20 (at my Wal-mart it is $4.57 ($22.88 jug) then look at the Mobil 5000 for $8.97 for 5 qts (which is $1.79 a qt).

Or look at the QS for $9.97 a jug (which is $1.99 qt) or Pennzoil YB for $10.92 5 qts ($2.18 qt)

All of those are close to 1/2 or more.

The above prices are close to your Wal-mart.. (unless they only discount the Mobil 1 in your area)

So if you are going to use Wal-Mart for your $4.20 Mobil 1, please use Wal-Mart for the conventional prices and not some gas station $3-4 or auto parts store prices.

Apples with apples please.

I think you will find syn costing what I said (close to twice or more over conventional)

I've never found a Wal-mart that sold only syn.



There. Go get those prices (since you again quoted Wal-mart for Mobil 1 but no other oils.. I guess your Wal-Mart sells ONLY Mobil 1?)

Let me know when you have those prices.
Bill

 

[JohnBrowning]

Bill I was workingonthe wifes car so I did not have time to go to Walmart. I thought of that too. It was the best I could do though in the time crunch I was under. I was working on her brakes. I could not use AutoZOnes price on Mobil-1 becuase it was even cheaper then Walmarts since they are doing 5 quarts of M1+M1 oil filter for $25 right now. So I was trying to use the higher full retail price of M1. I will look for the most expensive Dino though as well when I go to Walmart since M1 is the most expensive synthetic at Walmart.

 

[Steve S]

Originally Posted By: bar1
Originally Posted By: buster
Quote:
Bottom line, 98% of the engines don't need it and most people are wasting their $$.


Definitely true. Most API SM oils could be called syn blends IMO.

That depends on your OCI. Here in Europe you would have a difficult time selling a vehicle that can't go at least 10,000 miles (at most 18,750 miles) /2 years before (oil) service. Normal OCI is around 12,000 miles with 50/50 city/highway. This is Audi, BMW, MB, Toyota, Nissan, Ford, Opel (GM). All use OLM and most consumers/drivers follow that.

Do that with mineral oil, and give us results here in 5 years time or so
On this board it seems most of the syn oil users change their syn oil well before 10,000 miles. So if you are going to change your oil a 5,000 miles it seems a waste to run syn oil.

 

[Bill in Utah]

Originally Posted By: JohnBrowning
Bill I was workingonthe wifes car so I did not have time to go to Walmart. I thought of that too. It was the best I could do though in the time crunch I was under. I was working on her brakes. I could not use AutoZOnes price on Mobil-1 becuase it was even cheaper then Walmarts since they are doing 5 quarts of M1+M1 oil filter for $25 right now. So I was trying to use the higher full retail price of M1. I will look for the most expensive Dino though as well when I go to Walmart since M1 is the most expensive synthetic at Walmart.


Why look for the most expensive oil?

Just because Mobil 1 is the most expensive (due to their marketing) Castrol GTX will be your most expensive @ $11.92 for 5 qts ($2.38 a quart or almost $2 a quart less)

I'd rather compare Mobil 5000 to Mobil 1 as that is their Syn to conventional. $1.79 for conventional vs $4.20 (your price there, it is more expensive here) for syn.

$2.41 per quart more for syn. $12.05 for 5 qt oil change more.

That is more than twice.

Take care, bill

 

[Gary Allan]

Originally Posted By: Steve S
Originally Posted By: bar1
Originally Posted By: buster
Quote:
Bottom line, 98% of the engines don't need it and most people are wasting their $$.


Definitely true. Most API SM oils could be called syn blends IMO.

That depends on your OCI. Here in Europe you would have a difficult time selling a vehicle that can't go at least 10,000 miles (at most 18,750 miles) /2 years before (oil) service. Normal OCI is around 12,000 miles with 50/50 city/highway. This is Audi, BMW, MB, Toyota, Nissan, Ford, Opel (GM). All use OLM and most consumers/drivers follow that.

Do that with mineral oil, and give us results here in 5 years time or so
On this board it seems most of the syn oil users change their syn oil well before 10,000 miles. So if you are going to change your oil a 5,000 miles it seems a waste to run syn oil.


Unless you're alternative is to change it even more often. Most of our 5-6k OCI's are 6month OCI's. That is, mileage is not indicative of the length of service.

 

[JohnBrowning]

Ok Walmart by the quart M1 $5.97 by the 5 quart jug 21.97.

Castrol GTX 5W30 by the quart $3 buy the 5 quart jug $12.

So that is just under double the price. Dino at $3 a quart is not myidea of a good value if we are talking longterm ownership. SO Walmart was a good $.39 less then AutoZone and Castrol GTX was still themost expensive dino product I did not count Maxlif or Durablend since they call themselfs semi-synthetic and those where $4.49 at Walmart for the individual quarts so that is an even worse deal in my opion then anything else.