Well you know I was ASE Master Tech by 1990 so go figure. I have torn some engine downs you normaly do a couple hundred engines a year in a decent sized shop in a decent sized city! Some times they are complete replacements ie new short or long block other times you rebuild or just repair. THen you have all the cam swaps,valve train repairs, intake manifold gaskets and head gaskets and timeing belts and water pumps that do not even count towards the total number of engines rebuilt or replaced. You have to tear the thing apart sometimes to find out what failed and why. So my point is any mechcanic that is in a large city has seen more engines then any non-mechanic would ever see in a lifetime. It is just a fact of life. I am sure Dr. AEHass has seen more hearts in one yeas time then I would see in 10 lifetimes since I am not a cardiologist!
I also have never said that an engine would not make it 300,000 on conventional oil or further!It is preety common to see Toyota Hilux Pickups,Carolla,Camry's and Cressida's with 300,000-500,000 miles on them on the street still going strong on nothing but dino oil! I also have never said that that dino cause's oil consumption either. What idiot would make a statement like that! I think that Bill_in Utah is getting cantankerious in his old age and is putting words in peoples mouths unless I missed somethign wich I very well might have done!I know I sure as heck never said either one of the things that Bill try's so hard to put int hemouths of synthetic oil user's!It is though a scientific fact that is not up for debate that each secessive group number increase is clenaer and leaves fewer deposits behind when repeated subjected to the envrionmental conditions inside a modern internal combustion engine. It is also a fact that deposits cause mechanical [arts and seals to degrade over time just as much as wear and tear ever has. Like wise it is a fact that that the only reason that SM oils are so good is because of the mandated reduction in deposits that are allowed when testing to meet SM and that mandate has forced them to use less volitile dewaxed hydrocraked base stocks that are significantly better then the G-I stuff used for years!These are facts not opinions! In fact you could easily take a plate of steel that is clean and polished heat it evenly up to temp say 400° and drip various oils on it's surface for a few hours and see what the results are. You would be amazed at how quickly you would begine to see build up. The only base stocks that would remain almost deposit free are the G-V base stocks it is built right into their chemical structure just like a Cheat has their speed built right into it's genetic make up.
THe usualy culprit in consumption is piston and ring design but it can be exasperated by some oils and or deposit build up like we have seen on NorthStar engines and Saturn engines. In Ford's of yester-year the valve guides and seals where normaly the source of oil consumption but with these modulars I have to plead the fith because I just do not know enough about them.
A short piston skirt with thin low tension rings placed too close tot he top of the piton is an easy way to end up with consumption. THe reason they do this though is that it reduces emissions. Now if you hold your tolerances and clearances to insanely tight levels and really do a good job ont he bores finish you can get away with this for the first 100,000-140,000 miles with out too much issue. Now if you do not do this then you end up with vechiles that drink oil like a drunk locked in a brew house!!!This is why GM designed a new piston for the Corvettes and they tried what looked like epoxy encapulateing the piston. I held one at GM and no one could explain to me why they did that what it was meant to prevent but it was the strangest looking thing I had ever seen.
Chrysler did the high piston rings and almost no skirt on the pistons in the 4.7,3.7 and no problem with those engines useing any oil. The difference though is that that 3.7 V6 and 4.7V8 have race engine like tolerances and levels of concentricity. The materials used are far supurior to what they need to be for the puny power output of these engines.The rin lands and groves are anodized.
So it is all about design,materials,execution in manufactureing that determine if something is an oil burner in general. Now obviously neglect and abuse are not being accounted for but none of us do that so why discus it?
For 10,000,000,000 time synthetics are about cleanliness Bill just like detergents clean better then soaps.Scientific fact is scientific fact! Just look up the properties for any given base stock. If it leaves a mess in a test tube held over a bunson burner it is going to leave a mess in your engine when compared to a product that does not leave as much of a mess inthe beaker held over the same burner to the same temp. What is hard to believe about that? It is not like anyone is trying to convince the sky is falling or that your car is going to self destruct if you use anything other then what the OEM recomends onthe oil cap or the owners manual. Not like anyone is saying that your car is not going to last and will eat oil if you run dino. I do not see anything like that so I just do not understand where you get some of the stuff you try to toss out at people that like synthetic? WHy do you hate people so much for not useing dino? WHat is your problem? You obviously have some issues so just toss them out so we can work through them and all get back to getting along and haveing some fun!It is not like this board would have much trafic if we all only discussed dino oil now would it? Once you get past the it's cheap and does an just dandy job in those car's that are allowed under warranty to use it discussion that would be the end of the board.
You do not see me or any of the pro-synthetic people heckleing people when they state they want to use dino. We never get upset over someone wanting to use dino and not synthetic. We definately do not go off on torrents about how evil,foolish and twisted people that use dino oil are and how bad it is for the environment etc.........
SO I would say lets just get along. WHy have a huge rift heck have dino,synthetic and semi-synthetic in my oil stash. I have 5W30,10W30,5W40,0W40 and soon 0W10. If I can get along with thick and thin dino and synthetic anyone can. In the end it is about personel choice. I can not get $.49 dino oil like you can Bill so for me synthetic is makes a lot of sense since it is not that much more then dino in my neck of the woods! Next time I am AutoZone I will see what the most expensive dino oil is just for the record. Peace brother Bill and I hope you can relax I hate to see anyone getting so stired up over something as mundane as crankcase oil!-Always Your Friend in Oil Fun John!!!LOL