Toyotas answer to synthetics..................

[Amkeer]

All Toyota vehicles come from the factory with natural petroleum-based engine oil. Toyota is currently recommending API1 grade SJ or SL, or ILSAC2 multigrade petroleum-based engine oil3 for our current model year vehicles. In moderate climates, this oil should have a Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) viscosity rating of 5W-30. In our high mileage tests with preventative maintenance performed at the recommended intervals, the recommended natural petroleum-based oil has provided excellent service.
If you decide to use synthetic oil for the engine, it is best not to switch until the first scheduled oil change. Synthetic oil should meet or exceed the specifications provided in your Owner's Manual. Even if synthetic oil is used, we do not recommend a longer oil change interval. Also, once synthetic oil is used, you should keep using it and not switch back and forth with natural petroleum-based oil.


Daily Drives:
-2003 Toyota Tacoma PreRunner XtraCab, Impulse Red, Peppy 2.7 Liter 4 Banger, Running Mobil1 Synthetics SS 5W-30.
ODO 6600 Miles.
-1995 Toyota 4-Runner, Evergreen, 3.0 V6, Running Mobil1 Synthetic SS 10W-30.
ODO 82600 Miles. (Switching to GC next)Nope sticking with M1.
http://community.webshots.com/user/amkeer

 

[eljefino]

where are you quoting this from?

 

[mormit]

What sort of maintenance intervals are they reccommending with petroleum oils?

I believe it was the 7500mi intervals that gave problems. I wouldn't use dino oil in any make of car for that long. Up to 5000mi might be reasonable.

 

[eldawg4100]

ive read that same paragraph before, maybe my moms owners manual

 

[Amkeer]

Its direct from Toyotas corporate site. What caught me was the,

"Also, once synthetic oil is used, you should keep using it and not switch back and forth with natural petroleum-based oil."

and

"In our high mileage tests with preventative maintenance performed at the recommended intervals, the recommended natural petroleum-based oil has provided excellent service."

 

[widman]

So you have the same 2.7 four cil I have in my Hi-Lux 4 door 4x4 pickup. With the results I get with Delo 15w40 in that engine I won't be putting synthetic in it, but I service a shop that puts it in several dozen of them.
My analisis at 6800 km was posted here a couple of weeks ago. I've also posted a few of the analisis on the Supreme synthetics in these engines (5w-40).
As for your 5W-30 comment, I'd like to see the temp chart for this engine in the US. At the bottom of this page http://www.widman.biz/Seleccion/Viscosidades/viscosidades.html you will see the chart they use here where we have no CAFE. 5W-30 is only acceptable up to 10C, with 15W-40 covering -12C to over 40 C.

I just looked at your pic's.. I admire your clean engine. I just did 800 miles of slipping in the mud with 4 wheel drive, which unfortunately I do almost every month. UGH! No way to keep the engine that clean without a full underbody shield. Worse was that at times the water was into the fan blades.

[ January 25, 2004, 06:52 PM: Message edited by: widman ]

 

[Amkeer]

Widman,

Toyota in the 80's recommended 20-50 for use in their 4 cylinders. I am with you on the higher viscosity but the manual states 5-30.

In my 1985 pickup I ran 20-50 Castrol GTX. This 5-30 thing is new to me.

 

[Grossomotto]

For what it's worth, I'm about to dump Mobil Delvac 1 5W40 into both the Toyota V6 trucks. Just trying to find a good oil filter.

 

[heyjay]

I bought new a 1990 Toyota 4Runner 3.0 V6. The owner manual and especially the shop manual had many grades listed and their recommended ambient temps. I believe 5W-30 was recommended no higher than 60 F.

I ran Mobil Delvac 1 5W-40 year round with excellent results. The exception being 4 years when I lived in Salt Lake City and ran Mobil 1 15W-50 year round, it was just so much easier and cheaper to find Mobil 1 15W-50.

Whenever I had the thing in for a valve adjustment the mechanic was impressed with how clean it was and how little wear it had. It looked factory-new inside the motor.

My last valve adjustment / timing belt job was at 280,000km just before I sold it. Again, excellent compression and clean as a whistle inside.

I've always thought the CAFE-mandated oil grades were a crock of s***. We help boost corporate-average fuel economy at our expense, though FWIW I did try Mobil 1 5W-30 for one oil change and there was less than 0.25 MPG average difference.

It's also VERY interesting how the same motor in other countries has a MUCH different viscosity recommendation. I wonder if all those sludge horror stories in Toyota Sienna vans (My aunt has one what a nightmare) might have been prevented by Mobil 1 15W-50??

 

[Jelly]

quote:

---

Originally posted by heyjay:
I've always thought the CAFE-mandated oil grades were a crock of s***. We help boost corporate-average fuel economy at our expense, though FWIW I did try Mobil 1 5W-30 for one oil change and there was less than 0.25 MPG average difference.

It's also VERY interesting how the same motor in other countries has a MUCH different viscosity recommendation. I wonder if all those sludge horror stories in Toyota Sienna vans (My aunt has one what a nightmare) might have been prevented by Mobil 1 15W-50??

---

I think I'm in love...

 

[Pitbull]

I run a 1995 Toyota Landcruiser with the 4.5 liter straight six. Owners manual recommends using 5w30 oil and changing between 3500 and 7500 miles depending on service. After the first 30K miles I switched to Mobil 1 5w30 and change oil and toyota filter every 5000 miles. It now has 134K miles on it and uses about 1 quart of oil between 5K mile oil and filter changes. Temps in my area run between -5 to 98 degrees. Had the valve adjustment checked at 100K miles and engine looked like new. Why would I use any grade other than 5w30 when that is what Toyota recommends for my LC in all weather conditions? Plus I figure I can't get a better oil than Mobil 1 that is available at almost any auto parts store in my area? Got to say I love this Toyota Landcruiser the FZJ80 is the last of the real off road machines sold by Toyota here in the USA, plus it is good looking. JMHO

 

[heyjay]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jelly:

quote:

---

Originally posted by heyjay:
I've always thought the CAFE-mandated oil grades were a crock of s***. We help boost corporate-average fuel economy at our expense, though FWIW I did try Mobil 1 5W-30 for one oil change and there was less than 0.25 MPG average difference.

It's also VERY interesting how the same motor in other countries has a MUCH different viscosity recommendation. I wonder if all those sludge horror stories in Toyota Sienna vans (My aunt has one what a nightmare) might have been prevented by Mobil 1 15W-50??

---

I think I'm in love...

---

Geez, if I have this effect on folks then howcome I'm still single??

Jerry

 

[heyjay]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Pitbull:
I run a 1995 Toyota Landcruiser with the 4.5 liter straight six. Owners manual recommends using 5w30 oil and changing between 3500 and 7500 miles depending on service. After the first 30K miles I switched to Mobil 1 5w30 and change oil and toyota filter every 5000 miles. It now has 134K miles on it and uses about 1 quart of oil between 5K mile oil and filter changes. Temps in my area run between -5 to 98 degrees. Had the valve adjustment checked at 100K miles and engine looked like new. Why would I use any grade other than 5w30 when that is what Toyota recommends for my LC in all weather conditions? Plus I figure I can't get a better oil than Mobil 1 that is available at almost any auto parts store in my area? Got to say I love this Toyota Landcruiser the FZJ80 is the last of the real off road machines sold by Toyota here in the USA, plus it is good looking. JMHO

---

Good choice running M1 in that motor. I also like that vintage Land Bruiser and almost bought a shiny new 1996 Special Edition one at Larry H. Miller Toyota in Murray Utah.

The point I was trying to make is that the SAME EXACT motor used in other countries has MUCH different oil grade recommendations.

For example, in South America Toyota wants you to run a 10W-40, 15W-40, 20W-50, or 15W-50 in temps hotter than 60-80 F. In Austrailia, similar grades and ambient temps. Ditto the mideast and Africa. Howcome? It's the SAME EXACT MOTOR.

I guess my big question, and my even bigger concern, is this:

Why the h*** does the manufacturer want us to run a CAFE-oil like 5W-30 or 10W-30 in "any" hot temp in North America, when the SAME EXACT MOTOR carries a FAR HEAVIER grade recommendation in other countries??

The local fuel might have something to do with it, especially high sulfur levels. Though the Europeans cut their sulfur long before we started thinking of it, and they STILL recommend heavier grades. Ditto Australlia, and they've had emissions controls for a few years now.

I know my 1990 Toyota 4Runner 3.0 V6 recommended a 10W-30 as the "primary" fill in the owner's manual, but the official Toyota Shop Manual actually only recommended 10W-30 up to about 90 F.

The Shop Manual prefered a 10W-40, 15W-40, 20W-50, or 15W-50 in temps generally above 50 F. Why is that? So, I ran Mobil Delvac 1 5W-40 year round, except the 4 years I lived in Utah when I ran Mobil 1 15W-50 year round.

In Utah, I did try Mobil 1 5W-30 once between March - June just to see if it would help my MPG: on average, no difference to maybe 0.25 MPG (I only noticed that on one tank only, otherwise no difference).

The motor was MUCH noisier, lot's of "ticky ticky ticky" noises. It was silent running Delvac 1 5W-40 and Mobil 1 15W-50, so I went back to the 15W-50.

Of course, to a large manufacturer trying to up CAFE averages, even 0.15 MPG increase is really worth it. If you apply that to literally hundreds of thousands of units, those CAFE "credits" help offset cars and trucks with generally lower average MPG.

My 2000 GMC with Vortec 5.3 currently runs Mobil 1 0W-30 in winter (Can drop to -42 F here) and Mobil 1 10W-30 in summer. In August, I'm planning another trip to see friends in St. George, Utah, possibly a quick drive to Lost Wages.

This time, I'm going to fill with Mobil Delvac 1 5W-40 in April or May, and leave it in till fall. If there is no noticeable MPG difference, and based on my 4Runner I bet there won't be, then screw this CAFE nonsense.

Jerry

 

[slalom44]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Heyjay:
The local fuel might have something to do with it, especially high sulfur levels. Though the Europeans cut their sulfur long before we started thinking of it, and they STILL recommend heavier grades. Ditto Australlia, and they've had emissions controls for a few years now.....This time, I'm going to fill with Mobil Delvac 1 5W-40 in April or May, and leave it in till fall. If there is no noticeable MPG difference, and based on my 4Runner I bet there won't be, then screw this CAFE nonsense.

---

I think that the political minset is quite different in Europe, hence the tendancy toward heavier weight oils. Compared to us Yankees, the Europeans have a less "disposable" mindset. They prefer not to bury their garbage in landfills, and durable goods are more often repaired (than replaced)than we are accustomed to.

They don't have government mandated CAFE requirements, but they do have recyclability requirements. Hence, european cars tend to be designed more with durability in mind. That would explain why many european cars have larger oilpans and the use of heavier weight oils would be considered politically as better.

I don't want to get into an arguement about who builds better cars. That's not my point. My point is that CAFE wasn't an invironmental decision, but a political one. The political pressures and the consumer tastes in europe get them to lean in a different direction.

Fuel economy is of much greater importance to the european consumer than it is to the American consumer primarily due to the price of gasoline (or as they call it, petrol). Their tax structures tend to favor the use of smaller engines (heavy luxury tax on cars with engines greater than 2.0 liters in several countries). So politially, they've addressed fuel economy in a better way than Uncle Sam. At least it's more effective.

[ January 26, 2004, 06:25 PM: Message edited by: slalom44 ]

 

[Amkeer]

I think I may try a quart of 15-50 in place of a 5-30 in March which is my next scheduled OCI. Its a 5 quart sump in the Tacoma. I already run about 150-250 ml of 15-50 with the 10-30 in the Runner. Its alot smoother with the 15-50 added.

 

[cangreylegend]

Don't forget they have highways with higher speed limits hence the requirement for sustained high rpms and the larger oilpans.

I'm not convinced that their cars are necessarily more durable as compared to current Japanese designs and products.

 

[tpi]

EPA quote:


"EPA will approve the use of a GF-3 oil in test vehicles if the following conditions are satisfied:
1. Owner’s Manual Language. The manufacturer provides clear and unambiguous instructions in
the Owner’s Manual which identifying GF-3 non-synthetic engine oil of a specific viscosity grade
(e.g., 5W20, 5W30, 10W30) as the engine oil to be used under ambient temperature conditions likely
to be experienced during normal vehicle operation. It is appropriate for a manufacturer to specify the
use of a lower viscosity engine oil in extremely low ambient temperatures where the normally
specified oil may not flow adequately."

Note the "clear and unambiguous" reference to owners manual, with only the exception made for extremely cold temps.

Nothing mentioned about extreme HIGH temps, too much complexity here we start to get "ambiguous."

Most likely the 5W-20 or 30 specified will work fine for typical US driving patterns: lots of short trips in cold to moderate weather.

The small oil pan capacities in many US and Japanese designed cars probably has an upside: the oil warms up faster and evaporates moisture more thoroughly. Unfortunately for extended driving in hot weather this smaller capacity becomes a disadvantage.

I see temps in the 120's most every summer in the Colorado River valley. The vehicles run for hours on end with the AC compressor running constantly.

I'm not sure the "unambiguous" owners manual is serving me well here.

[ January 26, 2004, 09:24 PM: Message edited by: tpi ]

 

[heyjay]

Some of our driving conditions here are JUST as punishing as WOT on the Autobahn, perhaps worse. Especially extreme cold stop-n-go.

I was raised to use an oil appropriate for ambient conditions, and still feel uncomfortable running a lightweight in summer. Something like Delvac 1 5W-40 seems to cover all the bases and I've been a fan of this HD diesel oil for +20 years now.

Any thoughts on this? Maybe the best combination is a synthetic "light" oil like 0W-30 for the Best of Both Worlds??

I'm getting more confused about this issue because the SAME MOTOR in a foreign country has FAR DIFFERENT oil grade recommendations.

And there aren't too many places in South America that offer Autobahn speeds either, so I don't think it's because of WOT operation. It's because of the lack of a CAFE-comparable government agency.

 

[tpi]

On my 04 Camry with the 2.4, my concern is the timing chain. Frequently this wear item does not last as long as the piston rings, bearings etc. It is oil lubricated, and runs on a composite tensioner guide. A very small amount of wear goes a long way to make the chain sloppy. Wear on the tensioner guide does not show on oil analysis.

I'm pretty much going down the path of heavier oils during hot months, either an Delvac 1, Rotella Synthetic, or M1 15-50.

 

[Dr. T]

Plus, don't forget...we're all sold on the 3k/3mo. oil change interval too. Think that's acceptable in the rest of the world?

And then to further the brainwashing, the owner's manuals state: 7500 for normal, 3000 for severe. Who's not driving severe? Is WOT on the autobahn not classified as severe? Do they change things after 3k?

The reason for this is that the average 99 cent API oil can't survive much past 3k and for the rest that don't do this maintenance, there's always a new car. Heck, the winter kills everything in Canada anyway. Basically, it works for the duration of the warrany...as far as manuf. can attest to, that's all that's needed.