Toyota WS Transmission fluid

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Does anyone have any experience with this stuff? Lexus claims (at least in the US) that it's a "lifetime fluid", that never needs to be changed. Well I changed mine at 70,000 miles and the stuff came out almost black (new fluid is red). It's supposed to be a high viscosity fluid...I think it must be synthetic.

Anyone on here consider it to be a lifetime fluid?
 
No it's not lifetime. Lifetime translates loosely into long enough to make it through the warranty period.

While the black color can't be a good sign it's not necessarily useless yet. An analysis would tell you much more about the condition of the fluid.

It's best to get the first fluid change in early in the transmission life to remove early break in wear and contamination. I would always change the FF of an AT by 30k maximum. Ideally I'd want mine changed twice by then.
 
Originally Posted By: 901Memphis
No it's not lifetime. Lifetime translates loosely into long enough to make it through the warranty period.

While the black color can't be a good sign it's not necessarily useless yet. An analysis would tell you much more about the condition of the fluid.

It's best to get the first fluid change in early in the transmission life to remove early break in wear and contamination. I would always change the FF of an AT by 30k maximum. Ideally I'd want mine changed twice by then.


I guess it probably depends somewhat on the manufacturer recommendation regarding fluid changes, but when a manufacturer tells me...never change it, it's good for the life of the vehicle. I get leery. I too believe in 30k mile intervals for tranny fluid changes. I let my car go further than I ever intended, but still far short of what Lexus recommended (lifetime). I will be doing simple drain and refills every 30,000 miles from here on out.
 
I drained the WS at 30k on my old Prius, it came out black. I replaced with Redline D6 and then D4 every 30k up until it was totaled at 120k, the fluid always came out looking new.
 
Re: Lexus / Toyota WS ATF 100k miles on factory fill...time to drain / exchange torque converter and pan including lines to and returning from cooler / the radiator has a tube within it.
Life Time is warranty phrasing ... Change it out.
Tricky job DIY for the 2004-2006 6 speed LS Aisin units due to no oil dip stick
Go to clublexus.com and search 430 LS forums
 
Originally Posted By: amusing
Re: Lexus / Toyota WS ATF 100k miles on factory fill...time to drain / exchange torque converter and pan including lines to and returning from cooler / the radiator has a tube within it.
Life Time is warranty phrasing ... Change it out.
Tricky job DIY for the 2004-2006 6 speed LS Aisin units due to no oil dip stick
Go to clublexus.com and search 430 LS forums


Unicorn transmission for sure. It only appeared the 04-06 LS and GS V8's and none in Toyota or lower end lexus apps. It's not common (not like 4L60E's) and probably will be costly to repair.

I still need to do the fluid flush and exchange on my bro's 04 LS430. Trying to decide whether to go with WS or Maxline.
 
Nope. I drained mine last month with 105k Kms on the FF; It too was black. Only about 2L drained out and I topped it off with MaxLife. Will do another d&f next month to monitor fluid.
 
Originally Posted By: amusing
Re: Lexus / Toyota WS ATF 100k miles on factory fill...time to drain / exchange torque converter and pan including lines to and returning from cooler / the radiator has a tube within it.
Life Time is warranty phrasing ... Change it out.
Tricky job DIY for the 2004-2006 6 speed LS Aisin units due to no oil dip stick
Go to clublexus.com and search 430 LS forums


Yup, I have the LS 460. Supposedly it is a sealed unit, hence the reason why they claim it is "lifetime" fluid...no air gets into it. Bull [censored].

I did the service on it myself. I was planning on doing a simple drain and fill, but when I saw the color of the fluid I thought I had better drop the pan and change the filter as well. Honestly everything looked fine in there...even the magnets had minimal stuff on them. But man was that fluid dark. I think I'll do a simple drain and refill every year to just kind of keep up with the fluid a bit.
 
Originally Posted By: GSCJR
Nope. I drained mine last month with 105k Kms on the FF; It too was black. Only about 2L drained out and I topped it off with MaxLife. Will do another d&f next month to monitor fluid.


I wonder what they use for a dye in that fluid, I found a youtube video where a guy did his tranny service outside and the sun discolored some WS fluid he had sitting in direct sunlight. I don't think that would happen to any other transmission fluid out there.
 
Is the fluid just picking up the particles off the clutches, whatever color the clutch material might be...black in this case?
 
I haven't seen a UOA on black ATF that was fine.

WS is not a great performing ATF. Change it fully or partially regularly if vehicle is a keeper.

I've done 5-quart exchanges on my FWD 6 speed at 15k and 30k. Each time clunky downshifts and annoying upshifts were cured. My 4x4 5speed has had 5 drain/refills in 100k. Shifts always smooth out after a change.

Have 5 gallons of Amsoil ATL to work into both transmissions over the next 2 years.
 
It's not just Mercon LV and Toyota WS, I suspect most highly friction modified ATF filled transmissions have the same issue.

I use to service fleets of Toyotas about 10 years ago. Mostly Corollas and Yaris(es?). They were all rentals or panel shop courtesy vehicles etc so were likely not treated with much respect.

They were of course running factory fill T-IV and every vehicle had black trans fluid once they got to about 30k miles or 2 years old.
 
Originally Posted By: supercity
It's not just Mercon LV and Toyota WS, I suspect most highly friction modified ATF filled transmissions have the same issue.

I use to service fleets of Toyotas about 10 years ago. Mostly Corollas and Yaris(es?). They were all rentals or panel shop courtesy vehicles etc so were likely not treated with much respect.

They were of course running factory fill T-IV and every vehicle had black trans fluid once they got to about 30k miles or 2 years old.



Interesting. And although at first when I saw my fluid come out black I thought...oh no...I'm going to be spending 8k on a new lexus 8 speed transmission. But once I opened it up and saw that the magnets looked fine, I wasn't worried. And twelve thousand miles later, everything seems fine. It's just that I've never seen something like that before without there being major problems. Good to know it's normal nowadays.
 
I thought the lifetime label had everything to do with shear stability and nothing to do with particles/debris. I did a drain/fill on the wife's camry hybrid after reading about low mileage hybrids returning poor uoas.
 
Originally Posted By: doublebase
Well I changed mine at 70,000 miles and the stuff came out almost black (new fluid is red). It's supposed to be a high viscosity fluid...I think it must be synthetic.


I changed ATF in yaris with 70,000 miles recently. WS was almost like new, a bit darker red. I dunno why people get it black. I think this is a huge overexaggeration.

BTW, it's not "high viscosity".
 
Originally Posted By: montero1
I drained the WS at 30k on my old Prius, it came out black. I replaced with Redline D6 and then D4 every 30k up until it was totaled at 120k, the fluid always came out looking new.


There was something wrong with your prius. I drained the ATF from my 2010 prius at 30,000 miles and it was darker red but still red.
 
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