Hello, I have been told by Assistant service manager at Kissimmee Toyota, FL that "Toyota engines are made different from any other, therefore Amsoil Synthetic Oil would not work they way they are claiming to be"-? and I am just "wasting money" on it when I can just use regular oil. How is Toyota engine so different that even Amsoil does not take effect-?? or is it simply because Toyota want customer to come to them for business? I am sending this same letter to Amsoil, Toyota, and some other consumer information site. I would greatly appreciate it if you could explain this on going issue of "Toyota vs Amsoil". Thank you.
Toyota vs Amsoil
- Thread starter N1consumer
- Start date
- Status
Do a search for toyota and sludge on this board. It may not be the engine you have, but it is an eye opener. Maybe that's what the service manager means, toyotas make more sludge than other engines.
Dont take this as a slam against toyotas. Take it as a slam against greedy service managers. Sounds like he is just wanting to keep you tied to his service bay.
Dont take this as a slam against toyotas. Take it as a slam against greedy service managers. Sounds like he is just wanting to keep you tied to his service bay.
It is my understanding that Japanese engines are less demanding with respect to the oil quality compared to European engines for example.
This has to do with the state of the petrochemical industry in the Far Eastmore than anything else.
So the manager might saying that you really don't need to use a boutique oil.
Having said that I would add that in my brand new Toyota I plan to use only Mobil 1 0W-40 once it hits 5K miles.
It the absence of specific oil endorsements from Toyota I trust MB 229.5 or BMW LongLife and nothing else.
This has to do with the state of the petrochemical industry in the Far Eastmore than anything else.
So the manager might saying that you really don't need to use a boutique oil.
Having said that I would add that in my brand new Toyota I plan to use only Mobil 1 0W-40 once it hits 5K miles.
It the absence of specific oil endorsements from Toyota I trust MB 229.5 or BMW LongLife and nothing else.
Toyota's sludge monsters are very hard on ANY motor oil. What they were probably getting at is Amsoil's extended drain recommendations definitely do not apply in these engines. Having said that, Amsoil is still a good choice in these motors for intervals up to 7500 providing analysis is used. You can also use conventional oils, but you must change them very frequently in order to prevent any problems.
Totota has a sludge problem - and they have grudgingly acknowledged this.
Based on real world experience Amsoil will work fine in a Toyota, but I wouldn't go beyond 7.5K mile oil change intervals due to the known sludge issue.
That said I would rather use Amsoil in my Toyota than say zipperthong dino juice, so the service guy sounds a tad misguided.
Based on real world experience Amsoil will work fine in a Toyota, but I wouldn't go beyond 7.5K mile oil change intervals due to the known sludge issue.
That said I would rather use Amsoil in my Toyota than say zipperthong dino juice, so the service guy sounds a tad misguided.
Pablo is right. It's the Toyota engines that are the problem. You are better off using an oil like Amsoil, M1 or Redline to keep the engine as clean as possible. Don't go past 7.5k miles like Pablo has stated and you should be fine. Dealers know nothing about oil at all. Reality is, if you own a Toyota that sludges, you want a very good oil. I'd use S3k or Delvac 1 in a Toyota that is prone to sludge.
It's reasoning like that service manager expressed that is largely to blame for Toyotas sludging problem.
Their V6 engines in particular are harder on oil than most other engines (Dodge Durango has recently been identified as another). The ball was dropped when they didn't do their homework on oils for this engine. Those who have used premium synthetics at moderate intervals have reported fewer problems.
Those using conventional oil at Toyota's interval.....
Perhaps that manager wants to sell you a new engine.
[ May 28, 2003, 07:47 PM: Message edited by: mormit ]
Their V6 engines in particular are harder on oil than most other engines (Dodge Durango has recently been identified as another). The ball was dropped when they didn't do their homework on oils for this engine. Those who have used premium synthetics at moderate intervals have reported fewer problems.
Those using conventional oil at Toyota's interval.....
[ May 28, 2003, 07:47 PM: Message edited by: mormit ]
If I remember correctly no oil was immune to sludging in the Toyotas, even Amsoil sludged up.
I have an earlier model V6 but that cannot really go beyond 7500 on Amsoil.
I have an earlier model V6 but that cannot really go beyond 7500 on Amsoil.
The Toyota engines that "SLUDGE" are the 3.0 liter V-6 in the older Camry, ES300 and Sienna vans, and I believe one of the 4 cylinder engines.
Most Toyota engines do not have this problem.
Here is a link to a Honda engine that is BADLY sludged.
http://yotarepair.com/My Opinion.html
There is some good info on this site from a guy who was a service manager at a Toyota dealership for 10 years.
[ May 28, 2003, 08:10 PM: Message edited by: GSV ]
Most Toyota engines do not have this problem.
Here is a link to a Honda engine that is BADLY sludged.
http://yotarepair.com/My Opinion.html
There is some good info on this site from a guy who was a service manager at a Toyota dealership for 10 years.
[ May 28, 2003, 08:10 PM: Message edited by: GSV ]
That's a load of crap. *ANY* synthetic oil regardless of brand is better than the natural oil Toyota sells.
I can't believe the number of lies I hear coming from dealer service departments. At my Dodge dealer I said, "Can I use synthetic oil?" And they said "Sure!" They're a good service department.
Troy
That should probably read 0 problems. I too am pissed at Toyota for bungling this but I have not heard of anyone with problems running M1 or Amsoil over 5K-6K intervals.
IMHO Schaeffer would offer similar results...My UOA ('01 Camry V6) indicates it performs well.
Using an engine cleaner every 2nd or 3rd oil change may be also be a winning ticket to no sludge.
This Toyota engine degrades any oil pretty quickly, but a super premium synlube will still last longer. I have six local customers running Amsoil in this engine and they are running drains of 7500-10,000 miles with no difficulty; depending on severity of driving conditions.
The regular Amsoil 10w-30 and Series 2000, 0w-30 both work well in this engine.
TooSlick
The regular Amsoil 10w-30 and Series 2000, 0w-30 both work well in this engine.
TooSlick
Yeah, the Amsoil isn't compatible with your warp coils.
Punch it, Martha!
Cheers, 3MP
Punch it, Martha!
Cheers, 3MP
hhmm,.. I've got a 93, 3.0V6 Toyota pickup.
I'm guessing this is a "sludge" monster.
I'm guessing this is a "sludge" monster.
joe4324,
I have the same engine as you and no, this one isn't a sludger.
I have the same engine as you and no, this one isn't a sludger.
No sludge here either.
Actually I was checking the oil in my friends, girlfriends car the other day. It was a 2000 Cavalier with around 45000 miles. Talk about dirty and sludgy, the oil that is.
You could pull the dipstick out and it was brown, varnish. I brought her over and showed her my dipstick
out of my 1995 4 Runner v6 3.0 with about 80000 miles, "looks almost brand new", she said. She changed her dino around 4000 mile intervals. It appeared to me that this amount of varnish and sludge on the dipstick indicates a oil neglect issue which she denies.
[ June 02, 2003, 10:06 PM: Message edited by: Amkeer ]
Actually I was checking the oil in my friends, girlfriends car the other day. It was a 2000 Cavalier with around 45000 miles. Talk about dirty and sludgy, the oil that is.
[ June 02, 2003, 10:06 PM: Message edited by: Amkeer ]
I wanted to mention that Amsoils tech services department purchased one of these Toyota V-6 engines to run on a test stand in-house. They found the same things that Terry Dyson has previously mentioned, namely that the cylinder head temps are very high and that the oil tends to sit up in the valve lifter area and "cook", due to the design of the cylinder head. This results in excessive nitration/oxidation, which rapidly depletes the detergent additives and causes the TBN to quickly drop.
I would not go so far as to say this engine is defective, but I do think Toyota should be recommending 5k max oil change intervals, or 3k for severe service conditions. Of course that wouldn't be very popular with potential customers.
TooSlick
I would not go so far as to say this engine is defective, but I do think Toyota should be recommending 5k max oil change intervals, or 3k for severe service conditions. Of course that wouldn't be very popular with potential customers.
TooSlick
I work in the service deptartment of a toyota dealer and I can say from first hand accounts these sludge motors are all in cars where the owner takes little responsability for maintance. The last sludge car I saw (yesterday) an 02 avalon that hadn't had its oil changed in nearly 20,000 miles and had some SERVICE CHAMP $1 oil filter. And toyota is gonna give them an engine. Mainly 1MZ-FE engines are the most prone, and yeah thats great someone has broken it down to the scientific level of why the oil oxidizes, but the PCV doesn't flow enough either. I have seen 5S-FE and 5VZ-FE sludge motors so bad I couldn't pour oil in (the valve cover baffle was caked.) But of course thoes cars were never taken care of.
- Status