Toyota Sludge Monster V6 with 3,000 mile drain interval on mineral oil.

[J]

Hi,

My family owns one of the "sludge monster" V6
Camrys. It is getting regular 3,000 mile oil
changes with mineral oil. Should I be concerned
about sludge and early engine death?

The trouble is that this car is driven by my
mother, and she's pretty set in her ways and not
very knowledgeable about matters technical.
Also, she lives alone. So, I cannot afford to
confuse her unnecessarily.

thanks in advance

Jae

[ March 16, 2003, 02:26 AM: Message edited by: J ]

 

[digitaldrifter91]

hehe if u are concerned of sludge then what about auto rx....im using it on a sludged nissan engine right now and it works. 3000 mile oil changes are great, at least ur changing oil...u should find out if u really are getting sludged up engine or not....if nothing then just go with regular 3k changes...hehe ur mom is like my mom=)

 

[Pablo]

I would recommend an engine cleaning product such as the Nuetra mentioned here or Lubegard (non-solvent) or Amsoil engine flush as a preventative measure. My friend bought a Toyota of the same type that was run on mineral oil. He did a flush with Amsoil engine flush (10 minute idle - no driving) and new oil and filter (after draining the old oil) - it cleaned the engine OK, without causing major harm. He then ran a 3K interval with Mobil1. (I really recommend shorter for the first crankcase after a flush). Still his engine is fine. You will get many warnings about not using a solvent flush - good advice for an engine that is choked with sludge (you don't want huge chunks broken off) - but I believe a motor that had 3K changes shouldn't be choked.

I have no direct experience with Auto-Rx (it gets great reviews and coverage here), but for $25 your mom may be shocked at the price.....it works similar as the LubeGard product, with more precise dosage and driving with the product in the crankcase.

Good luck!

 

[jjbula]

Jae,

I have a 2001 V6 sludgemonster too. You can look at my oil analysis numbers for comfort.

I like Terry Dyson's oil analysis service. He will share his experience with you and provide top notch guidance that is unbiased. He will make sure that your analysis is not the victim of lab error as well.

I also like Auto-RX. I used it once on each of my cars and am very satisfied. I have since bought a gallon jug of Schaeffer Neutra to use at least every 3rd oil change. Do a search on both and you will be deluged with information.

What's my conclusion?...I now feel comfortable with at least 6,000 mile intervals with a top tier motor oil (synthetic or Schaeffer Blend) on my Camry. I may go 7-8K on my next change. Also, clean the PCV with a carb cleaner every 20-30K miles.

Cheers,

JJ

[ March 16, 2003, 10:33 AM: Message edited by: jjbula ]

 

[Ken2]

I'm leery of any of the 10 minute type flush products, Amsoil and Lubegard included. I've used the Amsoil flush, it looked to me like just another strong solvent product, and wasn't very effective for me.


Here's what Lubegard says about their flush: "Increase profits with LUBEGARD Flush products! Now you can offer your customers an essential and valuable service with or without a flush machine!"..."Add one bottle of LUBEGARD Engine Flush and circulate at idle for 10 to 15 minutes. Stop the engine and drain as usual. Allow sufficient time for the system to drain completely." So...although I trust Lubegard transmission stuff, this seems to be just another 10 minute flush, and one that's not safe to operate in the engine in even small amounts.

I like jjbula's advice. Malibu's info sounds like he's applied for an ad agency job, and this is his demo script.


Ken

 

[Pablo]

This part was left off from the Lubegard site quote:

quote:

---

The removal of these deposits is done at a controlled rate so that large amounts of possible clearance blocking debris is not generated during this service. Lubegard Engine Flush with LXE® Technology is a premium synthetic blend that contains special detergents and dispersants and NO harmful solvents that will damage seals & gaskets.

---

I know everyone here fawns over AutoRx. Fine. The product appears to work. But it's not the only product that works. (And frankly my cars don't need it) Chances are that if someone has been doing 3K oil changes, they'll be just fine anyhow.

PS I don't sell LubeGard products, but they could save the $25, that's all.

[ March 16, 2003, 03:32 PM: Message edited by: Pablo ]

 

[Ken2]

Pablo,

I saw the part you just quoted, but then saw the other part about only running the stuff for 15 minutes, max, and about allowing it to drain completely. I'm not comforted by this last.


Ken

 

[OneQuartLow]

Pablo, Accordman, do you buy all your vehicles new?

David

 

[Pablo]

I buy both new and used - prefer an engine that I need to clean

- seriously I do own a Toyota truck with 22RE (bought new), the rest are Volvos - I switched them over to synthetic 850 new, 245T, 262 both used...

 

[MolaKule]

What we don't see are the pistons and ring packs which see much higher heat and pressures than do the cam assemblies and associated heads.

I think this are is where the engine cleaners really help, whether they be aromatic hydrocarbons or ester hydrocarbons.

[ March 16, 2003, 09:46 PM: Message edited by: MolaKule ]

 

[mormit]

Ken: The reason the solvent based cleaners stipulate no more than 15 minutes at idle is to keep folks from putting it in and driving around with it. Being a light solvent it will dilute the oil decreasing its viscosity. Not a problem for a short idle period but bad idea if the engine will be put under load.

Accordman: We believe you. There are a lot of cars from a lot of makes that have a lot of miles on them. This particular engine is simply known be be very hard on oil. A periodic flush would be helpfull in this application.

[ March 16, 2003, 10:11 PM: Message edited by: mormit ]

 

[Ken2]

Mormit,

I understand the reason for not putting any load on an engine with the thinned oil in it.

What I don't understand is how these things can do any good in 10 or 15 minutes. I've spend much more time than that hand scrubbing sludged machinery with the strongest solvents that I could get, wearing a rubber apron, synthetic rubber gloves, face mask, and good ventilation...and still took much longer than 15 minutes.


Ken

 

[mormit]

Yeah, understand your reasoning.

When I first read your post I thought you were concerned about a detrimental effect a solvent would have on the engine - shouldn't have any unless you drive around with thinned out oil. Elbow grease and solvent takes more than fifteen minutes to clean things up...good point.

During a fifteen minute idle the temperatures and speeds in the engine may make up the difference.

BTW: I have a sample out to Schaeffer's right now which the last 1500 miles were run with 12oz of Neutra. It was only supposed to be 500 miles but it was one wicked winter and I only got to change the oil last weekend. Would NEVER have done that with a thin solvent engine flush. I'll post those results as soon as I get them.

 

[TooSlick]

J,

This toyota V-6 beats up the oil pretty badly ...I'd have your mother switch to Mobil 1, 5w-30 and change it every 5000 miles. That will slowly clean out any high temp deposits and keep the top of the engine very clean.

The Toyota V-6 is absolutely the worse N/A engine I've seen in terms of oil degradation, period. It's a combination of the cylinder head design and the lean burn characteristics that make it so bad in terms of nitration and oxidation. As Bob has mentioned, it is the cam gear mechanism that shears the oil ....

TooSlick

 

[J]

quote:

---

Originally posted by TooSlick:


The Toyota V-6 is absolutely the worse N/A engine I've seen in terms of oil degradation, period.

---

Hi,

Alright. That's what I feared. I'll switch
her to Mobil 1. I never thought I would see a
N/A V6 which is harder on oil than turbo engine.

thanks

Jae

 

[mebanditws6]

The reason for Camry's and Sienna's having a good reliability according to CR is they have no aftermarket following like the Maxima. That means the average owner is not going to drive the car as hard and explore it's limits like like a Maxima owner, or much less a Z28 or Trans Am owner. I personally don't care for Toyotas all that much as they are overrated in terms of reliability and durability. My high school cross country coach has an 88 4Runner with around 150k when I ran for him. The truck was on it's 2nd engine and it had a moderate lifter tick too. He does take care of it, but drives it a little hard. A friend of mine drives the family disposable car, a 98 RAV4 to school for gas mileage so he can save his 69 Mach I for nice days. The RAV has 62k and has a leaky head gasket.

Jason

 

[outrun]

How clean do maintained GM 3800 Engines look?

It is such a mass produced and reliable unit just no photos here

My parents 1993 Oldmobile Ninety-Eight Regency just hit 186,000 miles and it runs and sounds as if it is brand new (fuel economy is new as well)

That makes me think, can the engine be nasty inside and still run good? How much life do you think it has left (knock on wood)

We use the Engine Oil life indicator (which is calibrated to the OEM Dino Fill) it runs Mobil 1 however. It just went off at 4,600 miles yesterday.

Any takers?

 

[mebanditws6]

quote:

---

Originally posted by outrun:
How clean do maintained GM 3800 Engines look?

It is such a mass produced and reliable unit just no photos here

My parents 1993 Oldmobile Ninety-Eight Regency just hit 186,000 miles and it runs and sounds as if it is brand new (fuel economy is new as well)

That makes me think, can the engine be nasty inside and still run good? How much life do you think it has left (knock on wood)

We use the Engine Oil life indicator (which is calibrated to the OEM Dino Fill) it runs Mobil 1 however. It just went off at 4,600 miles yesterday.

Any takers?

---

For one if your 3800 is pretty sludged up, it can still stand up very well to this kind of stress. This motor is based on an old 60's Buick V8 design that Land Rover now has the rights to. It is by far one of the most durable engines made, pushrod or overhead cam. It is also not inherently hard on oil like some of the Toyotas and probably a good number of other engines designed in the last 10 years, allowing it to run extended drain intervals with plain dino oil. I have a friend with a Bonneville with this motor that has 165k on it, and that thing runs like new. He also has a hard time getting the oil changed every 5k too. He also never checks the oil level. Fortunately as I found out, he wouldn't have to top it off, at least for 5k miles. INMO you can't beat this motor for a combo of outstanding reliability, power, gas mileage, relative smooth and quiet operation, and expense to build. Plus with iron heads as well as block, if it would overheat, there won't be a worry of warping any heads like aluminum headed engines would. It is one of the last of the examples when not just engines, but everything was made to last.

Jason

 

[S2000driver]

Sludge monster LOL

A toyota rises from the swamps...

 

[Jimbo]

Dad's 1999 V6 Camry has 92,000 sludge-free miles on dealer service with 10W-30 Pennzoil dino. I think the key here is the relatively high mileage and a warm climate (LA). I suspect short-trip drivers in cold areas are the ones with problems.