Toyota Sludge Engines

[smeltjr]

A buddy of mine came by tonight with a brand spankin new 2003 Toyota Camry Solara V6 SLE. I told him these are likely excellent motors, but that there were some Toyota V6 engines with oil sludge problems. IS THIS ONE OF THEM? Besides religious oil changing and maybe auto-rx maintenance dosage, what keeps these engines clean? Can a goos syn keep it clean? If it is not one of the problem ones, I guess its a wasted post. Thanks.

 

[RussellA]

There are alot of posts on this on this issue. Here's one I started a while back. Toyota Sludge Prevention The official line from Toyota is that there was never a sludge problem with these engines if proper maintenance was followed, however in mid 2002 they modified the PCV system and baffles in the valvecovers to help extend oil life in the event of poor maintenance. The Toyota engine replacement policy applies to the 3.0 L v6 made from 97 -02. There are several theories around the Toyota sludge problem including 1) cam gear design sheers oil 2) head temps were increased to meet new emission standards 3) head was designed to keep oil up around the valve train to pre-lube on start up but it cooks oil when engine turned off and oil sits on hot heads. Changes in 2003 to the 3.0 L V6 don't appear to address these issues. Better safe than sorry. I would search this site for recommendations. Personally I plan to change from my current use of Amsoil 0w30 to Red line 5w30 because Terry has had good luck with it in these engines. Then after a UOA or two with Terry's analysis I most likely will start the maintenance dose of Auto-rx. The new 2004 Solara has the 3.3 L v6. I believe this is a completely redesigned engine and hopefully does not have any sludge problem. [ August 11, 2003, 12:09 AM: Message edited by: RussellA ]

 

[ToyotaNSaturn]

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Originally posted by RussellA: 3) head was designed to keep oil up around the valve train to pre-lube on start up but it cooks oil when engine turned off and oil sits on hot heads.

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I can attest to this one! We burned 1/2 qt of M1 10-30 to our vacation spot during the 500 mile journey there. I remember the smell of burning oil when I'd shut the van off (99 Sienna V6) during pit-stops. I mentioned this to a friend during the vacation and he said to just leave it running during fuel-ups and pit-stops. Sure enough, it didn't burn any on the return trip home. Most of the trip was at 75MPH + with A/C on and a full load of stuff (how did I ever get this much STUFF? )

 

[Jelly]

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Originally posted by JohnBrowning: The first thing to forget about is Toyota's extended maintence oil change interval. The next thing to forget about is 5W30 conventional oil! THese engines do best with synthetic like Redline 5W30 or 10W30! Mobil 1 and Amsoil do ok as well so long as you do not go past 5000 miles and definately consider useing LC with them. If he choses to go with regular oil use a good type II+ like Delo 400 or Chevron Supreme and change it every 3000 miles. I think Schaffers has also performed well. Terry has demonstrated that increased solvency from Lube Control help alot to prevent this! Bob has determined that this is not an engine design problem rather it is a problem with Toyotas OCI recomendation!

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Delo 400 15w-40? Can the Toyota use this thick of an oil? If so, it seems like it would be able to handle the sludge problem as good as anything out there as it is designed for turbo'd engines under a good deal of stress. [ August 11, 2003, 05:46 PM: Message edited by: Jelly ]

 

[RussellA]

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I can attest to this one! We burned 1/2 qt of M1 10-30 to our vacation spot during the 500 mile journey there. I remember the smell of burning oil when I'd shut the van off (99 Sienna V6) during pit-stops. I mentioned this to a friend during the vacation and he said to just leave it running during fuel-ups and pit-stops. Sure enough, it didn't burn any on the return trip home. Most of the trip was at 75MPH + with A/C on and a full load of stuff (how did I ever get this much STUFF? )

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This seems to be consistant with reports of oil sludging. Seems the Sienna had the worse luck of all. Everyone assumes it's the extra load on the engine with a full van and "soccer mom" short trips. I think engine compartment space is a factor also. I looked at my brother-in-laws 99 Lexus RX300. Much tighter in the engine compartment than my 99 Avalon. I would say I have about 3 more inches of space between the back of the electric radiator fan and the exhaust manifold than the RX300 does. I've heard the Sienna is a really tight fit. Wow if M1 10w30 was burning up there imagine what dino oil must do.

 

[sbc350gearhead]

I have a 99 camry with the 2.2 (one of the supposed sludge monsters) and the engine has never used one drop of oil (that is about the only good thing I can say about the car).

 

[RussellA]

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I have a 99 camry with the 2.2 (one of the supposed sludge monsters) and the engine has never used one drop of oil (that is about the only good thing I can say about the car).

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I've been very happy with my 99 Avalon and have never had problems oil or otherwise. All was fine until I got the letter that basically said "some people have had their engines blow up due to oil geling. This is due to bad maintenance, but to be nice we will replace these engines up to 8 years . If you are following the maintenance schedule and haven't had problems, just forget you ever saw this". I sort of did ignor it until a friend of mine called me and told me his 95 Camary 2.2 (not even an offical sludge monster) with 105K miles had sludge and cost $3,000 to repair. He said he replace the oil every 5K with Quakerstate (I think this was normal service for this year). Then I did research and well the rest is history.

 

[Amkeer]

Just use a quality synthetic like Mobil1 and change it out every 6 months or 5000 miles or so. You won't have a sludge issue. Daily Drives -2003 Toyota Tacoma PreRunner XtraCab, Impulse Red, Peppy 2.7 Liter 4 Banger, Running Mobil1 Synthetics SS 5W-30. ODO 4300 Miles. -1995 Toyota 4-Runner, Evergreen, 3.0 V6, Running Mobil1 Synthetic SS 10W-30. ODO 80500 Miles

 

[wulimaster]

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Originally posted by sbc350gearhead: I have a 99 camry with the 2.2 (one of the supposed sludge monsters) and the engine has never used one drop of oil (that is about the only good thing I can say about the car).

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How does it look under the valve covers?

 

[Alan]

I have an 02 Sienna and have been using M1 5W30 with 5K intervals.The oil darkens as it's supposed to but there is also some consumption however it is very slight.Too be honest I am starting to think that this is too much for the oil and it would be better suited to a 3K intervals with maybe a fine dino 10W30,something like Chevron.M1 with 3K intervals would prove too exspensive.

 

[RussellA]

Take a look at this Toyota V6 UOA I don't get a warm fuzzy with dino at 3k in this engine long term. If you go dino I would look at using the maintenance dose of Auto-Rx and/or work with Terry Dyson to find out his lube control (additive) secrets.

 

[JohnBrowning]

The first thing to forget about is Toyota's extended maintence oil change interval. The next thing to forget about is 5W30 conventional oil! THese engines do best with synthetic like Redline 5W30 or 10W30! Mobil 1 and Amsoil do ok as well so long as you do not go past 5000 miles and definately consider useing LC with them. If he choses to go with regular oil use a good type II+ like Delo 400 or Chevron Supreme and change it every 3000 miles. I think Schaffers has also performed well. Terry has demonstrated that increased solvency from Lube Control help alot to prevent this! Bob has determined that this is not an engine design problem rather it is a problem with Toyotas OCI recomendation!

 

[kiko]

I'm coming up to 4,0000 miles now on the german syntec in my 2004 Sienna. Will drain a sample amount for a UOA. It would be interesting to find out what the results are. So far I've never had to top off the oil and I've been monitoring it at most. I hope the sludge problems have been resolved in the 3MZ-FE engine (keeping my fingers crossed) .

 

[ToyotaNSaturn]

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Wow if M1 10w30 was burning up there imagine what dino oil must do.

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I agree. I changed it that vacation batch out with 2,950 miles on it..didn't want to take any chances in this vehicle. I just don't feel comfortable running any oil in this motor past 2.5-3K miles. (I put M1 15w50 in my Saturn, I'm sure it's good for at least 8K in that car.) I should have bought a Honda minivan! I wouldn't have had all these engine issues! I've read here that thicker oil shears faster than thinner oil. Knowing that, would running thicker oil contain any advantages over thinner oil in this motor? (assuming engine tolerances allow for thicker oil to be used).

 

[RussellA]

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I agree. I changed it that vacation batch out with 2,950 miles on it..didn't want to take any chances in this vehicle. I just don't feel comfortable running any oil in this motor past 2.5-3K miles. (I put M1 15w50 in my Saturn, I'm sure it's good for at least 8K in that car.) I should have bought a Honda minivan! I wouldn't have had all these engine issues! I've read here that thicker oil shears faster than thinner oil. Knowing that, would running thicker oil contain any advantages over thinner oil in this motor? (assuming engine tolerances allow for thicker oil to be used).

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I believe it was Terry that said you don't want to go above a 30w on these because you need good oil flow to keep the temps down. Here's a couple of good UOA's on toyota V6 sludge monsters using Red line. Redline 5w-30 - Toyota Sienna 01' Toyota Avalon 3.0L V6/Redline 10w-30 And in fairness here are a couple good ones using Amsoil 0w30 Series 2000 Amsoil 0w-30 in a 3.0L, Camry V-6 "TSO" in a 2001 Camry V-6

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I should have bought a Honda minivan!

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I heard they had transmission problems. Just can't win.

 

[RussellA]

Oh yeah, ToyotaNSaturn, What octane gas were you using on that trip? Opinion is that not running 91 or greater makes the heads run even hotter.

 

[ToyotaNSaturn]

Russell, I used 93 octane the whole trip.

 

[ToyotaNSaturn]

Do I have this right....if I understand this correctly, using 91 octane is good for gas mileage, but bad for temperature reduction in the cylinder heads. If true can I use 75 octane gas?

 

[RussellA]

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Do I have this right....if I understand this correctly, using 91 octane is good for gas mileage, but bad for temperature reduction in the cylinder heads. If true can I use 75 octane gas?

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No , 91 octane (or 93) in these engines are good for cooler temps , better power, and better gas mileage. If I remember this right, the computer will retard (or is it advance) the spark timing with a lower octane gas to keep from pinging but this makes it run hotter, especially in the heads. You were doing the best thing for this engine with 93 octane. So image if you were running cheap dino and 87 octane gas. You might be getting a rebuilt engine from Toyota now even with 3k OCI. And they swear they don't have a problem [ August 12, 2003, 06:20 PM: Message edited by: RussellA ]

 

[sbc350gearhead]

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Originally posted by wulimaster:

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Originally posted by sbc350gearhead: I have a 99 camry with the 2.2 (one of the supposed sludge monsters) and the engine has never used one drop of oil (that is about the only good thing I can say about the car).

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How does it look under the valve covers?

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Never took the valve cover off. [ August 12, 2003, 06:54 PM: Message edited by: sbc350gearhead ]