Toyota owners "boring"?

[grm386wa]

The definition of Savvy is 'Well informed and perceptive; shrewd"....

That being said, I would hardly call a Toyota buyer, in general, savvy. That would imply that anyone who buys a Toyota is making a savvy decision.

IMO, the person who buys the best "deal", for that particular person, is the savvy buyer.

IMO, the person who buys the Toyota bought a very good car with a very good reputation. However, one would be reaching quite far to say that that person is more "savvy" than the same type person who bought a Ford or GM car.

$$ for $$, I find it hard to beat an american sedan for value. Value being defined as "Worth in usefulness or importance to the possessor; utility or merit".

 

[Gurkha]

Pardon me if I am wrong but isn't value also based on individual needs, perception etc. For one, a car with more space is value and for other, a car which spends the least time with mechanics is true value, so in the end, it differs, but it is unfair and downright immature to generalize and call all Toyota owners boring, that way, all Crown Vic or Taurus owners can be classified with lots of generalizations, again an immature thing to do.

 

[ChromiumSteel]

Sorry. A car like a Honda Civic that is made for 300,000 trouble free miles has much more value than an American made piece of crud that makes numerous visits to the dealer for warranty work by mechanics who much of the time don't immediately solve the problem. That's funny, someone using the words value and American car in the same sentence.

 

[brianl703]

quote:

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Originally posted by ChromiumSteel:
Honda Civic that is made for 300,000 trouble free miles

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Have you actually driven one for 300,000 miles without a problem, or are you simply parroting the latest net_BS?

See, the problem is, I've been to my mechanic's shop a few times and I see Civics in there for all sorts of repair jobs, from CV joints to ignition modules to transmissions, and none of them have over 300,000 miles on them.

So the claim of "300,000 trouble free miles" appears to be hyperbole at best...

[ August 05, 2006, 08:54 AM: Message edited by: brianl703 ]

 

[Gurkha]

Well my Honda Accord V6 is still running after 500,000+ miles with basic wear and tear maintenance done, Honda and Toyota made their rep by selling trouble free cars needing lower jobs than others, doesn't mean they are invincible in any way, just that they make them better designed.

 

[brianl703]

Therin lies the rub...what defines "basic wear and tear maintenance"?

 

[Gurkha]

Brake pads, wipers, timing belt, clutch at 260,000 miles, man, they would wear on every cars made, even we humans wear down and much earlier.

 

[brianl703]

Struts? Shocks? What about those? On a car with 150K they're just about wasted, no matter what.

Or is the goal here just to do the bare minimum required to keep it going from point "A" to point "B", regardless of whether it bounces down the road and the check engine light's on solid because the oxygen sensors are wasted too... (not a problem where there are no emissions checks).

Speaking of inspections, I'm told that, because of the German TUV inspection, cars aren't usually kept much beyond 10 years there (they start getting too expensive to keep in a condition that will allow them to pass the test). The old cars are often sent to Poland to avoid a 500 euro disposal fee.

 

[grm386wa]

quote:

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Originally posted by ChromiumSteel:
Sorry. A car like a Honda Civic that is made for 300,000 trouble free miles has much more value than an American made piece of crud that makes numerous visits to the dealer for warranty work by mechanics who much of the time don't immediately solve the problem. That's funny, someone using the words value and American car in the same sentence.

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Yes, and I will continue to use the word value as I defined earlier.
96 Taurus GL 97K bought 2 years ago used for $1000. Driven for the past 2 years and replaced a timing chaing cover gasket, timing chain, plugs wires, AC cycle switch and a belt tensioner pully $500 total investment in this car on wear and tear items. 24MPG and 5K OCI. Car now has 107K and is a daily driver I would trust to go anywhere.
For my family and my financial situation, $1500 invested into a vehicle for 2 years of driving is quite a value IMO, considering I couldn't touch a Honda or Toyota for less than $2500 to $3000 for a similar milage/year/condition car.

Your situation may be different and your perception of value may not be the same as mine. If we are talking showroom new cars, then you might have an arguement about Honda or Toyota being a better value. But the used car market in my area is so out of whack with imports. I'm much too frugal to overpay for a car with an import name plate, and, unless I hit the lottery sometime soon, I highly doubt I'll ever buy a zero milage new car ever again. There is much more value in used these days.

 

[ChromiumSteel]

Have you actually driven one for 300,000 miles without a problem, or are you simply parroting the latest net_BS?
Insults aside. Give me a break. I've had four Hondas. Three Civic's and an Accord. The Civic's all bought new. The Accord we were the fourth owners. It now is on its fidth owner and delivers chinese food and gets beat to death. Still runs like a top.
I remember my first Civic. First problem was the heater control knob wore out at 184,000 miles. The part was $35.00. I changed it out myself. Second and only other problem, alternator at 210,000. The alternator shop rebuilt it for $50. Parrot that b***h!

 

[brianl703]

Judging by what I see at my mechanic's shop, they don't build them that way anymore.

Either that or safety and emissions inspection programs work.

Also sounds like you haven't driven one for 300,000 miles.

[ August 05, 2006, 02:09 PM: Message edited by: brianl703 ]

 

[Drew99GT]

For the money that's been required to get my father's 98 Blazer to 191,000 miles, he could have bought 3 used Civics

He's on the 3rd trans, intake gaskets, 2 fuel pumps, 2 alternators, water pump, shocks, u-joints, rear axle seals, the gas struts and hold down cables on the rear lift gate ripped out of the body, radiator (dexbrick issues), brakes once.

On my 94 Corolla with 140K: 2 timing belts so far and 1 valve adjustment, one water pump, struts, brakes once and a new exhaust because the original owner backed into a curb and bent the headpipe, one alternator, motor mounts, new starter and that's it I think.

It's never the motor that dies, it's the little craap that'll nickel and dime ANY old high mileage car.

 

[brianl703]

quote:

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Originally posted by Drew99GT:
It's never the motor that dies, it's the little craap that'll nickel and dime ANY old high mileage car.

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That's been my experience as well.

An alternator, an oil pan gasket(*), a water pump, motor mounts(*), oxygen sensors (**) and rear sway bar bushings/links(*) on my 1996 Ford Contour which currently has 138,000 miles.

(*) means it was replaced only because I have certain standards for a car which are more than that just "It starts and drives".

(**) was replaced due to a check engine light. If it weren't for those pesky emissions tests, black electrical tape would've been cheaper.

So basically, the only parts that actually needed to be replaced, for the purpose of making it start and run, are the waterpump and the alternator. And I believe the alternator was killed by a defective battery.

The waterpump..well, I bet non-silicated coolant would have allowed it to last much longer.

(BTW, you should read what Customer Reports has to say about this car. They basically think it's a POS, yet I don't believe that the maintenance history shows excessive repairs

)

 

[Toy4x4]

grm,
I'm sorry, but you're assuming that I've made a blanket statement that ANYONE who buys a Toyota must be savvy. In my previous post I've stated a condition of the Toyota buyer...one who believes in a company because of its reputation to build a better product. Not ALL people buy Toyotas because of this. I also stated there are variables.
'Well informed and perceptive'...to buy a product that has a reputation of being built better...seems savvy to me. 'Shrewd'...that is going overboard. There are shrewd Toyota owners, but not because they bought Toyotas.

Considering Ford made a statement a year or two back stating they should be up to Toyota quality sometime in the near future, what are the previous Ford buyers to think? "WTH...I thought I was buying a first rate vehicle!?!" Ford admitted their products were not on the same level.
My .02.

 

[brianl703]

Do you have a link to where someone, speaking officially on behalf of Ford, made that statement?

 

[K-Man]

ZZZ ... ZZZ ... (snore) ... ZZZ ... Huh?

Oh, sorry, I must have fallen asleep for the last 8 or so pages. Were you Toyota owners saying something?

 

[Drew99GT]

You must be def. Apparently you didn't hear the sound of 800 rwhp coming from those factory stock longblock turbo Supras. And the turbo MR2 and Celica GTS/GT 4..............boy, what lame cars.

 

[MN Driver]

Hey Drew you said you've done the brakes once and timing belt twice. Timing belt a pretty easy DIY item, any special tools. Sounds like the rear drum brakes might need a hold down tool, but that wouldn't be too hard to deal with. Any special knack needed on those items?

 

[Drew99GT]

I actually didn't do the brakes, they were done by the previous owner right before I bought the car. The only special tool on the timing belt might be a breaker bar to jam into a slot in the flywheel to keep the crank from turning while you unbolt the crank pulley. You'll also need a pretty long 1/2 inch ratchet extension to get to the 2 lower bolts on the passenger side engine mount which has to be undone to lower the motor a tad so the belt can slide through. You "may" need a puller to get the crank pulley off but likely shouldn't. Get a Haynes manual, it spells it out much better than the others for the timing belt IMO.

 

[brianl703]

quote:

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Originally posted by Drew99GT:
The only special tool on the timing belt might be a breaker bar to jam into a slot in the flywheel to keep the crank from turning while you unbolt the crank pulley.

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If it's a 5 speed, having a helper put it in 5th gear and applying the brakes works great to keep the crank from turning. (5th gear has the lowest amount of torque multiplication of all the gears, so the forces applied to the brake pads as you unbolt the crank pulley will be the lowest).

One of those $50 Harbor Freight electric impact wrenches would work great, too.