Toyota Matrix v. Pontiac Vibe
- Thread starter jbas
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I'd go with the Matrix. A respectable manufacturer doesn't sell its competitors cars.
You need to hook a dealer by saying you're buying "Now" or they blow you off. These salesmen are motivated by "Sell 4 cars this weekend and I'll send you to Cancun" type nonsense from their sales managers.
Once you have the salesmen panting at your knees then you swoop in for the killer deal.
Once you have the salesmen panting at your knees then you swoop in for the killer deal.
Did you know that in the past Toyota sold the Cavalier in Japan as a Toyota? Most if not all manufacturers have done this kind of thing. Honda sold Isuzu SUVs, Isuzu is basically all rebadged GM now, Chrysler has sold Mitsubishis, etc. Besides, here in Michigan the Toyota name would be a liability as opposed to an asset.
quote:
And why would it be?
Your the know it all,who can find it all on the internet for free.
And why would it be?
Your the know it all,who can find it all on the internet for free.
I realize it's common for auto manufacturers to sell others' products. But for me to buy a car:
1. It needs to be engineered and built by a company that I respect.
2. It needs to have a badge of the same name.
To me, the Matrix/Vibe is Toyota engineering (correct me if I'm wrong). If Toyota were to sell a re-badged Cobalt, and that was a car I was planning on buying, I wouldn't consider the Toyota version. It's really just a matter of perception; I haven't personally seen Toyota, Honda, Mazda (cars), Nissan, Subaru, Volkswagon, BMW, Mercedes, etc. do that, so my perception is that they are capable of building their own quality cars and I'd prefer to have their badge on mine.
1. It needs to be engineered and built by a company that I respect.
2. It needs to have a badge of the same name.
To me, the Matrix/Vibe is Toyota engineering (correct me if I'm wrong). If Toyota were to sell a re-badged Cobalt, and that was a car I was planning on buying, I wouldn't consider the Toyota version. It's really just a matter of perception; I haven't personally seen Toyota, Honda, Mazda (cars), Nissan, Subaru, Volkswagon, BMW, Mercedes, etc. do that, so my perception is that they are capable of building their own quality cars and I'd prefer to have their badge on mine.
I can certainly understand your point, and it would have been great if GM could have developed the Pontiac Vibe all on their own. From what I understand, GM and Toyota agreed on the original Corolla based platform, and from there each did their styling work seperately, but not secretly. Interesting note; for the Matrix, Toyota chose to use the interior design GM did for the Vibe: "Both cars have the same interiors, designed by GM designer, John Mack."
I sure would like to know how GM/Toyota worked that out!
Found with Google image search, Toyota Cavalier(!!):
Tokyo -- As a new car for Toyota Motor Corp.'s home-market dealers, it's a drop in the bucket, a flea on an elephant.
But as a symbol, the Toyota Cavalier built by General Motors Corp. at Lordstown, OH, USA, is bigger than life, a Mount Fuji among the anthills.
Consider this: Toyota's home-market share is shrinking (down from 44% to 38% in six years), it has plenty of extremely good small cars of its own, and its quality is unsurpassed.
Why take on another car from a foreign automaker whose quality, until quite recently, has been suspect?
Why go to the great expense of bringing in a small American car when your annual import target is only 20,000 units?
And don't forget the heavy costs of establishing a new, unfamiliar brand in a market notoriously finicky about what its own automakers offer, let alone a newcomer from the U.S.
Yet, backed by a heavy marketing barrage that surprisingly includes commercials opening with a female vocalist singing the U.S. National Anthem (in English), the Toyota Cavalier goes on sale here next month priced between $18,000 and $20,500 in what the Japanese describe as "the mid market."
Call it a marriage of convenience.
Continue Article
In 2004, GM and Toyota celebrated their 20 year partnership at NUMMI:
NUMMI Marks 20th Anniversary
A quote by Fujio Cho, the recently retired CEO of Toyota:
"NUMMI was Toyota's initiation into North American production. We are very proud to build quality products with GM. Without their partnership twenty years ago, Toyota would not be where it is today."
Ultimately, Toyota also considers GM a customer (as well as competitor), a customer that purchases 50 to 60 thousand Vibes a year. I'm sure Toyota aims to please that customer as much as any other.
vad, thanks for that link!
The last two paragraphs stood out:
Toyota Executive Vice President Toshimi Onishi observes that "We see Cavalier as another great result of GM/Toyota cooperation. We compete around the world, but team up in special markets."
It should be sobering to their competitors that the world's No. 1 and No.3 automakers can pull off deals like this. Just think what they could do if they got really serious.
I guess now that should read No. 1 and No.2!
The last two paragraphs stood out:
Toyota Executive Vice President Toshimi Onishi observes that "We see Cavalier as another great result of GM/Toyota cooperation. We compete around the world, but team up in special markets."
It should be sobering to their competitors that the world's No. 1 and No.3 automakers can pull off deals like this. Just think what they could do if they got really serious.
I guess now that should read No. 1 and No.2!
LTVibe is right:
www.motortrend.com/features/editorial/112_0506_thebigpicture/
Looks like Ford was eclipsed by Toyota at end of 2003, and per above article the internal talk at Toyota was predicting them ahead of GM in sales in 2008.
www.motortrend.com/features/editorial/112_0506_thebigpicture/
Looks like Ford was eclipsed by Toyota at end of 2003, and per above article the internal talk at Toyota was predicting them ahead of GM in sales in 2008.
One thing to consider are State Farm's ratings for these two.
For the Matrix:
Liability Rating Index: C = charged standard premium
Vehicle Safety Discount 0%
Damage and Theft Index E = charged significantly higher than standard premium
For the Vibe:
Liability Rating Index B = charged somewhat lower than standard premium
Vehicle Safety Discount 30%
Damage and Theft Index E = charged significantly higher than standard premium
http://www.statefarm.com/insuranc/auto/veh_rating/ratings.htm
Conclusion: It's more expensive to insure a Matrix than to insure a Vibe with State Farm.
For the Matrix:
Liability Rating Index: C = charged standard premium
Vehicle Safety Discount 0%
Damage and Theft Index E = charged significantly higher than standard premium
For the Vibe:
Liability Rating Index B = charged somewhat lower than standard premium
Vehicle Safety Discount 30%
Damage and Theft Index E = charged significantly higher than standard premium
http://www.statefarm.com/insuranc/auto/veh_rating/ratings.htm
Conclusion: It's more expensive to insure a Matrix than to insure a Vibe with State Farm.
That's amazing. I could almost see a different theft rating, but those are the same. Why would the Vibe be considered safer than the Matrix?
Maybe Matrix owners are typically more accident-prone (younger) than those who buy the Vibe, making the Matrix statistically more likely to have liability payouts?
Same reason why I pay quite a bit more for insurance on my Toyota Corolla over a Toyota Camry...
Even though the Camry costs alot more and is a bigger unit with higher reapir costs.
Kids drive them.
My dad who is 70 paid TWICE as much for his 2001 Civic insurance than his 2005 Vue which cost 3 times what the Civic was worth.
Take care, Bill
Back to the original question, I buy Vibes for my taxi fleet because the nearest Toyota dealership is 100 miles away. Plus GM usually has better financing rates. We beat the **** out of these cars on rough city streets 24/7 and I've never had an unusual problem. I have one with 275,000km or 167,000 miles and the total repair bill has been 1 heater motor and 1 power window switch. The suspension is getting a bit soft though so it will likely need struts this year.
Olympic,
Do you ever post over at GenVibe? The reason I ask is that I've never heard of a Vibe with that kind of mileage and I'm sure there would be owner's over there that would be really happy with your experience.
M_C
Do you ever post over at GenVibe? The reason I ask is that I've never heard of a Vibe with that kind of mileage and I'm sure there would be owner's over there that would be really happy with your experience.
M_C
I'm a member there under the same screen name. Havn't posted in a while though because I have limited time to surf the web.
Olympic: thanks.
..What oil and filters do you use? and what OCI?
..And your customers don't mind the smallish size of the Vibe? (entry access, luggage?)
..What oil and filters do you use? and what OCI?
..And your customers don't mind the smallish size of the Vibe? (entry access, luggage?)
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