Toyota finally comes clean...

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Thanks to my friend the DEALER on MM.net for posting this...

Toyotas All Sludged Up

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Copied From Automotive News







LOS ANGELES -- Toyota Motor Sales U.S.A. Inc. has quietly settled a class-action lawsuit that covers about 3.5 million Toyota and Lexus vehicles that may have been damaged by engine oil sludge.



Details of the settlement, which allows for third-party mediation of sludge claims rejected by Toyota, have been mailed to 7.5 million current and previous owners.



Critics contend Toyota has told customers and dealers too little about sludge issues. They say some customers took vehicles with dead engines to dealers who had little or no knowledge of the problem and often assumed it was the owners' fault.



Unhappy customers had no remedy other than hiring a lawyer to go after Toyota.



Under the agreement, owners whose claims have been denied by Toyota may submit them to a third-party mediator at no cost for binding arbitration.



"This settlement breathes life into claims that have been dead for years," said Gary Gambel, a lawyer for plaintiffs who sued Toyota. "This is not a settlement that gives a few dollars to everyone. The relief is exactly tied to the problems and damages that someone might have."



The lawsuit, filed in a Louisiana district court, is expected to be approved by the court in early February.



Toyotas at risk

About 3.3 million Toyota vehicles are susceptible to oil sludge, which can cause thousands of dollars in damage and require replacement of the engine. Here are the vehicles included in the settlement.

VEHICLE MODEL YEARS

Camry 4 cyl. 1997-2001

Camry 6 cyl. 1997-2002

Camry Solara 4 cyl. 1999-2001

Camry Solara 6 cyl. 1999-2002

Sienna 6 cyl. 1998-2002

Avalon 6 cyl. 1997-2002

Celica 4 cyl. 1997-1999

Highlander 6 cyl. 2001-2002

Lexus ES 300 1997-2002

Lexus RX 300 1999-2002





Chink in the armor?



Sludge is gelled oil that fails to lubricate engine parts. It can lead to damage, often requiring a new engine at a cost that can exceed $10,000. Complaints about sludged engines have plagued several carmakers, but Toyota's troubles have been especially controversial in light of its reputation for vehicle quality.



The issue highlights a possible chink in the company's armor. Executives fear Toyota is growing too fast for its engineering resources. That could lead to quality snags and a tarnished reputation.



When a customer takes a sludge-caked engine to a dealership, there is usually a "clean-out" procedure. The head is pulled and a service technician tries try to steam out the sludge. If that doesn't work, the engine must be replaced.



Sludge can result from poor engine design; overly tight tolerances between moving parts; improper cooling; and poor maintenance by consumers.



Toyota insists the problem arises mainly when owners fail to change their oil frequently enough.



The agreement does not find Toyota at fault.



"The settlement doesn't mean that Toyota or Lexus vehicles are predisposed to develop oil gel," according to the notice.



"The court did not decide which side was right."



After Toyota had received 3,400 sludge complaints by 2002 it extended its vehicle warranty to eight years and unlimited miles. The program was offered to owners of 1997-2002 Toyota and Lexus vehicles equipped with 3.0-liter V-6 or 2.2-liter four-cylinder engines. The company declined to give an updated number of complaints.



The terms



Under terms of the settlement:


Owners of damaged vehicles have eight years plus 120 days from the original purchase date to file a complaint.

If Toyota denies the claim, owners can appeal to a judge-appointed third-party administrator: J. Robert Ates, a New Orleans lawyer.

Customers who have already made repairs may be able to recover the costs.

Only those who elect not to participate in the settlement can sue Toyota individually. The deadline for that choice was Dec. 31, 2006.

The settlement is transferable to future vehicle owners.

The car only needs to show evidence of oil sludge. It is not necessary for the owner to have made repairs during the claim period.
Damages that can be recovered include loss in value of the vehicle and incidental costs, such as rental cars. Past lawyers' fees, mental anguish and bodily injuries are not covered.
A Toyota spokesman said the agreement is not a defeat for the automaker.




"The settlement validates the customer support program we implemented four years ago," Xavier Dominicis said.



"The terms of the program remain unchanged. There always was a way for customers to appeal our decision."



Plaintiff lawyers disagree. They say Toyota failed to communicate the extent of the problem to its dealers and customers. Toyota's appeal process also meant hiring a lawyer, which many consumers could not afford. It costs nothing to file an appeal with Ates.



"The consumer only needs to show reasonable maintenance in terms of oil changes," Gambel said. "You don't need to prove where the sludge came from, or explain your driving habits. If you have oil sludge, Toyota pays" the consumer.



Consumers can get more information by calling 888-279-4405 or at www.oilgelsettlement.com.



You may e-mail Mark Rechtin at [email protected]


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Toyota's troubles have been especially controversial in light of its reputation for vehicle quality.

The issue highlights a possible chink in the company's armor. Executives fear Toyota is growing too fast for its engineering resources. That could lead to quality snags and a tarnished reputation
 
Go figure. Our courts down here are very plaintiff-friendly.
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Not really come clean yet , although it appears they have been forced to wash their hands , the " odor " of the barn is still upon them - and some solid matter as well .

My opinion is that if you remember /research how these design deficiencies and others have been handled since 1997 by toyota , by toyota dealers , by the press , and by toyota " supporters and spin doctors "
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on the internet several things are readily apparent .

One of these is that a very significant , but as yet to be determined portion of toyota's business success is based on perhaps , illegitimate means (profits as well ) , and the " real " toyota has been very successful in creating an alter ego . This alter ego when taken as a whole , is largely illusionary .
As always , there are those who just don't know , some of whom have just recently found out the hard way , and a larger group who are about to .

One of their fundamental propaganda/public relations principles that they are using right now to explain the many and various product shortcomings currently " Moving Forward "
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is " Failing Forward "
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- you know , the " our success ' forced ' on us by the consumer has temporarily caused a few problems " when the reality is that their business plan for a greedy , short sighted lunge for volume has serious miscalculations in it , and has placed that goal over maintaining their own carefully crafted " good " name , and even possibly ahead of basic consumer safety - see recent balljoint recall .
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Good thing about lying esp. often and repeatably ; it usually catches up with you ............ eventually

Worth remembering ;
You can fool some of the people all of the time ,
and you can fool all of people some of the time ,
but you can't fool all of the people all of the time .

There is a song from a long time ago , that I am reminded of " Time Has Come Today "
 
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Your just scared; it's blatantly obvious. A japanese automaker is poised to surpass General Motors as the number one car maker in the world, and your insinuating that sludge and ball joint recalls will be the end of them.
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Propaganda??? Do I need to drag out some of Ford's stuff about the fire issues in several models over several years?

In essence, you are saying that the vast majority of Toyota buyers are idiots and continue buying those unreliable P.O.S.es. Nothing could be further from the truth. People are heaving themselves into Toyota showrooms for the 2nd and 3rd Toyota products because they're getting more value for their hard earned $$$. If it was all an alter ego and they were really producing complete pieces of #@$%!, they wouldn't be in the position they're in, ball joint recalls and sludge monsters included.

Lying? Has there been any fatalities directly attributed to Toyota's inferior product like there was for several Ford vehicles, where Ford lied and denied until they were sued into the toilet?

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As always , there are those who just don't know , some of whom have just recently found out the hard way , and a larger group who are about to.


If I had no idea which make this was attributed to, I'd have guessed GM over their gasket issues.

Just trying to be a little "fair and balanced" on the subject.
 
Well .., gee Drew , .... how do you interpret this class action lawsuit settlement , the history behind it ,
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and the original post concerning it ?
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99.99% of corporations first reaction to anything potentially negative is CIA. We all know every vehicle manufacturer has engaged in it. Yes, Toyota should not have stonewalled for as long as they have. AT LEAST they started covering people regarding sludge issues not relating to the class action suit. What has General Motors done for people (like my brother) who ended up with blown engines because of faulty gaskets? They quoted him 5 grand for a new motor and said take it or leave it.
 
The only problem with these engines is that Toyota did not specify a high enough quality oil to be used in them. Had they recommended an ACEA A5/B5 quality synthetic in the SAE 5w-30 grade, they never would have had an issue.

I know a number of folks locally who are running 10k-12k changes with Amsoil in these Toyo V-6 engines and they perform just fine.

TD
 
Nothing about this article would prevent me from buying my next Toyota. I have never had any issues with my Toyotas--but then again, I use a decent quality oil.

Toyota's decision to extend the warranty to 8 years and unlimited miles seems like a "good faith effort".

Thanks for the post, it was informative.
 
I have one of these 5SFE 4 cyl sludge monster with 198K.
It made it there with the atomic orange filter and 10W-30
"whatever was on sale" with 5K OCI. No problems!
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My opinion, Toyota is mostly right...people not performing regular maintenance, but on the other hand what about those who do?.
 
I understand the position that lack of proper maintenance may have contributed to or caused the problem. But has this been a problem in other brands of cars to the extent that a class action law suit is filed? Ar Toyota's the only cars that people neglect to do proper OCIs on. I would estimate that most people who buy Toyota's are likely to be a bit more savvy about OCI's. Most are informed shoppers and a bit more financially blessed than others because Toyota's are rarely discounted and aren't cheap. It's too bad that Toyota only responded to this extent after being sued. For that reason, and because in my experience Toyota salesman are the most aggressive I have ever encountered, I would carefully consider all options before buying from them. If I bought an import again would probably buy a Honda.
 
It might surprise you to know that if I could have one wish granted in regards to toyota and the toyota community at large , it would be that things would go well for them .
I have that same desire for every single auto manufacturer and their people operating in any market , anywhere in the world .

Why ?

Well , for one , I am an auto enthusiast and a firm believer in the free enterprise system as the best way to , if nothing else , create the greatest good for the greatest number .
Fundamental to both is the concept of vigorous and healthy competition , which I also believe , improves the product for one and for all .
In more practical terms , this means every body in the industry doing well , and doing well a whole lot better than any of them are doing now .

Let me try and put it another way .
If I was a toyota stock holder , or an officer in the company , I would be arguing for a consolidation of ground taken , rather than the one they are pursuing - grabbing for more , alot more , at this time .
This consolidation would involve placing a much greater emphasis on retaining/ shoring up their " reputation " , one , that whether you believe they have achieved as much by hook and crook as I do or not , is still out there and of great value for the long run .

Another way to see it is the following ;
Its always better to secure the beachhead before pushing inland . Toyota has more than a beachhead , and a whole lot more than a beachhead's worth of securing to do .

edited for demonstrated lack of spelling skill or knowledge
 
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How are things going bad for Toyota??? One ball joint recall and a sludge lawsuit are better than par for an auto manufacturer. Have you not seen some of the recalls be other manufacturers of late? Have you seen a graph of Toyota's net income over the last 10 years compared to other manufacturers? I'd say they are doing just fine.

By the way, I do own a Toyota so you can call me a Toyota apologist, but my next car purchase is likely going to be a GM vehicle with an Ecotec and a used Jeep Cherokee so I can get to the fishin hole bettah! I'm gonna keep the Corolla though as a muddin vehicle
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That may be too simple reasoning! I know many people that are financially better that take worse care of their car (not just a Toyota) They seem to have been sucked up by this attitude of 100K everything (coolant, tuneup etc...)
Those of us on bitog pretty much know better, just differing on opinion of intervals, type, brand etc.
And then there are a lot of people who irregardless of stature, just do not care about a vehicle and wonder why they quit.
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I have one of these 5SFE 4 cyl sludge monster with 198K.
It made it there with the atomic orange filter and 10W-30
"whatever was on sale" with 5K OCI. No problems!
driving.gif





You and thousands more just like you. I could as a shop owner go on and on about customers that I know that have had zero sludge issues and are well over 150K miles on their cars. I personally have witnessed many idiots that had the mentality that their Toyota would run forever with nothing but gas. The engine failures I have witnessed got what they deserved and are extremely lucky it wasn't a GM product becouse they would be SOL as far as getting any money for the neglect the gave their vehicle.
 
My Saturn Ion has the Ecotec engine and I like it better than the old engine in the Saturn SLs. But I wish it can a can type oil filter.

I would not mind having a used Jeep Cherokee myself.
 
This was already posted on BOBISTHEOILGUY.
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As for g20ooh, having spent part of my machining career in a automotive engine remanufacturing facility I've seen just about every brand of foreign and domestic gas engine sludged up at one time or another including Ford and Chevy!. It all comes down to proper maintenance for the conditions you drive in. Easily 50% of the people on the road do inadequate maintenance for their driving conditions.

Until recently, for decades Toyota stated 3750 miles OCI (Schedule "A") for severe conditions. Examples are short trips under 5 miles, temperatures remain below freezing, extensive idling and or low speed driving to name a few.

Or 7500 OCI miles for normal driving conditions (Schedule "B"). Problem is if you read the examples in the owner manuals. Some Toyota owners fit into Schedule "A" category BUT followed Schedule "B" 7500 mile OCI category or worse. I would bet a quart of oil that the people who have sludge issues with Toyota did not changed their oil at 3750 miles.
 
I don't mean this as a knock on Toyota, but Enron's ten year growth in net also looked very good.
Are Toyota owners any more likely to neglect oil changes than Honda owners?
If not, how come we don't see these issues with Honda products?
 
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