Toyota 0w20, 4400 miles, 2006 Civic

[Patman]

Here are the latest results from my 2006 Civic, analysis done by Wearcheck Canada: 4,400 miles on oil July 14 to Nov 19 (4 months) 83,800 miles on engine Toyota 0w20 Quaker State oil filter 4.0L oil capacity no makeup oil MM was at 50% Iron 3.6 Lead 0 Aluminum 9.7 Copper 0.8 Chromium 0.3 Nickel 0 Titanium 0 Tin 0 Silver 0 Silicon 11 Potassium 1.3 Sodium 29 Moly 589 Boron 65 Barium 0 Calcium 2650 Magnesium 35 Manganese 0.1 Antimony 1.8 Vanadium 0 Beryllium 0 Cadmium 0 Lithium 0.3 Sulfur 3911 ZDDP 20.6 Phosphorus 720 Zinc 897 Oxidation 115 Nitration 50 Sulfation 87 Soot 0 Glycol 0 Water 0 Fuel 2.0 % Viscosity at 100c 7.0

 

[volk06]

Thats a stout oil! Looks good

 

[Donald]

Is the fuel % correct? Two percent. Seems high. TBN? Short trips?

 

[CATERHAM]

Looks good with low wear numbers even for the low mileage. The low KV100 value of 7cSt is due in part to the 2% of gas. The lower than normal moly level is undoubtedly due to a good amount of the previous fill in this sample. Now that you've got a full sump of straight Toyota 0W-20, I presume you'll extend the OCI?

 

[Patman]

Originally Posted By: Donald

Is the fuel % correct? Two percent. Seems high. TBN? Short trips?

The fuel number is correct, and I'm not really sure why it's this high. I don't do short trips at all, and before taking the sample I drove the car for about a half hour. Hopefully the number will be lower on the next test. I didn't get a TBN number, as I decided to save $10 per kit by getting the basic MOB1 package. It would have been nice to see the 40c viscosity and TBN, but the extra $120 was a bit hard to swallow (I buy the kits in boxes of 12)

 

[Patman]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM

Now that you've got a full sump of straight Toyota 0W-20, I presume you'll extend the OCI?

The plan this time is to change the oil according to the maintenance minder, so my next interval will be roughly double what this one was. Although part of me wonders if I should cap the next interval to 5 or 6000 miles just in case the fuel dilution ends up being even higher. I'm impressed with how low the wear numbers are even with the fuel dilution and the lower viscosity.

 

[k24a4]

i would be interested to know what the universal average is for aluminum at that interval. my k24 (honda) was 2 @ 6200 miles. different motor and lab, i know, and probably different driving conditions as well. what were your driving conditions? thanks for the post.

 

[deven]

With the low 100 Visc plus fuel plus Oxidation of 115(normal should be below 25) and Alum level at 9.7 in 4400 miles I say you go with a thicker oil, say 5w20. Talking to a tribologist(not Mr. Dyson) the one thing she told me was that whenever aluminum reads high(normal should be 1 every 1000 miles according to her) it usually has to do with viscocity being too low. Take that FWIW though

 

[JOD]

Originally Posted By: deven

With the low 100 Visc plus fuel plus Oxidation of 115(normal should be below 25) and Alum level at 9.7 in 4400 miles I say you go with a thicker oil, say 5w20. Talking to a tribologist(not Mr. Dyson) the one thing she told me was that whenever aluminum reads high(normal should be 1 every 1000 miles according to her) it usually has to do with viscocity being too low. Take that FWIW though

While I hate to question someone who does this for a living, I'd seriously question a recommendation based on that level of resolution-we're still talking about a 1-3 PPM per mile difference, which could be due to the testing methods alone. Also, note that in the VOA from the same lab, the Toyota 0W20 contained 11PPM of Al: LINK. The Wearcheck #'s are in parens. So, the actual aluminum count may be minimal--and I think this is one of the hazards of getting hung up on single-digit wear numbers, particularly if you don't reference the VOA from the same lab.

 

[Patman]

Originally Posted By: k24a4

i would be interested to know what the universal average is for aluminum at that interval. my k24 (honda) was 2 @ 6200 miles. different motor and lab, i know, and probably different driving conditions as well. what were your driving conditions?

I drive about 75% highway with this car, and I'm very gentle on the throttle, most of the time I don't exceed 2000rpm. I'm not worried about the aluminum since as mentioned above, virgin analysis has shown this oil contains a lot of aluminum to begin with.

 

[k24a4]

ah, i see. thanks. i'm going to use honda sm 0w-20, my first use ever of 0w, this winter here in the northeast. congrats on a great report and thanks JOD for your clarification. i'm sure your civic will last a very long time.

 

[Pablo]

I'd like to to see an iron count, or just a particle count. Al is on the high side for a Honda under 5K UOA and man that's ATF viscosity. The fuel dilution must have just happened, wish we knew the virgin oxidation number, that would tell us how long the fuel has been high.

 

[deven]

JOD, thanks for clearing that up for me. I wasn't aware that it was that high. I just assumed that Aluminum would be 0 like most other oils. With that said, there is still something else at play here looking at all the numbers and what Pablo said.

 

[SLCraig]

Originally Posted By: Patman

Originally Posted By: k24a4

i would be interested to know what the universal average is for aluminum at that interval. my k24 (honda) was 2 @ 6200 miles. different motor and lab, i know, and probably different driving conditions as well. what were your driving conditions?

I drive about 75% highway with this car, and I'm very gentle on the throttle, most of the time I don't exceed 2000rpm. I'm not worried about the aluminum since as mentioned above, virgin analysis has shown this oil contains a lot of aluminum to begin with.

Dang, How do you not go above 2K RPM's? My maintenance minder came on about 9K KMs or so during my last OCI, and I do 75% highway too, The difference is my car sees higher RPMs regularly because I drive rural highways. (passing) I wonder if there is a difference between the '06 and '11 MM systems, or just the fact the MM thinks I'm harder on my car

 

[buster]

What about that oxidation #? Looks good, but the Al is a tad high.

 

[Patman]

Originally Posted By: SLCraig

Dang, How do you not go above 2K RPM's?

I drive like a super granny with this car in order to maximize fuel economy!

 

[Patman]

Originally Posted By: buster

What about that oxidation #? Looks good, but the Al is a tad high.

Everyone keeps saying this, but once again some of you are ignoring the fact that VOAs show this oil to contain 11ppm of aluminum to begin with, so the aluminum in this report is not all wear particles. The oxidation number from Wearcheck is not a percentage, I've heard before that it's out of a scale of 200, so that 115 might only actually be around 57%.

 

[SubLGT]

High oxidation, nitration, and sulfation. Something is amiss.

 

[buster]

Originally Posted By: Patman

Originally Posted By: buster

What about that oxidation #? Looks good, but the Al is a tad high.

Everyone keeps saying this, but once again some of you are ignoring the fact that VOAs show this oil to contain 11ppm of aluminum to begin with, so the aluminum in this report is not all wear particles. The oxidation number from Wearcheck is not a percentage, I've heard before that it's out of a scale of 200, so that 115 might only actually be around 57%.

Cool, thanks. In that case, it looks great!

 

[JAG]

Originally Posted By: Patman

The oxidation number from Wearcheck is not a percentage, I've heard before that it's out of a scale of 200, so that 115 might only actually be around 57%.

It is typically a 0-199 scale but a huge increase of, for example, 100 typically comes along with an oil that is toast (much worse off than 50% used up). But your oil does not appear to be toast. There appears to be no oxidative thickening. Esters show up as oxidation in that test so I wonder if this oil has a lot of esters and a VOA would have showed an oxidation value over 50 or even 75. Virgin Red Line oils have had oxidation values of around 150. Keeping RPMs under 2000 RPM can save fuel in the short term but it does slow the oil flow through the ring pack, increasing oxidation and maybe piston groove deposits. Remember that some of the worst engines to buy are those driven by grandmas to church and the grocery store. Haha. It does an engine good when the oil is hot for the engine to get an Italian tune-up occasionally.