Toyota 0w-20, 10,292 miles, 2011 Toyota Prius

[river_rat]

Originally Posted By: Rand
high moly can cause issues in some engines... deposits and such.
using a smaller amount of a more effective type is a win.

I've read that. There is more to an oil than its additives. If the base stock is good, and the engine designed for it, then the ads just need a good balance, I think.

cheers,
Rob

 

[yota4me]

Originally Posted By: CMMeadAM
Under "filter" is states "15 microns." Which cartridge filter is this ?
Great looking report !

 

[Norm Olt]

montero1 has a 12K UOA using 5W-30 Formula Shell synthetic on his Prius with almost 100K miles on it: results were equally good (at least, IMHO)...

What is the point? Are you REALLY sure the dealership used oil in bottles? How can you be sure they were not refilled from a bulk tank? Did you get the seals back to examine?

I guess I don't grasp the attraction to collecting all the data one can garner: how does it change anything?

Cheers!

 

[The Critic]

Originally Posted By: Norm Olt
montero1 has a 12K UOA using 5W-30 Formula Shell synthetic on his Prius with almost 100K miles on it: results were equally good (at least, IMHO)...

What is the point? Are you REALLY sure the dealership used oil in bottles? How can you be sure they were not refilled from a bulk tank? Did you get the seals back to examine?

Cheers!


I know the people at this dealer fairly well, and am on first name basis with them. Their 0w-20 is in bottles only. Some dealers are now doing the Toyota 0w-20 bulk program, but this only applies to the larger dealers.

Also, 0w-20 full-synthetic is the required oil for the 2010+ Prius. 5w-30 is no longer acceptable per warranty guidelines.

 

[fdcg27]

A really clean UOA.
The sodium probably means nothing, since there is no potassium in the analysis.
With the residual TBN, you could run this oil in your use a bit longer.
Toyota has apprently supplied a really good spec to the blender of this oil.

 

[The Critic]

Originally Posted By: yota4me
Originally Posted By: CMMeadAM
Under "filter" is states "15 microns." Which cartridge filter is this ?
Great looking report !


I guess I forgot to answer this. It was a genuine Toyota filter.

I am at 49k now and will be due for another oil change soon. Thinking about going with plain 'ol Mobil 1 5w-30 this time to see if there will be any difference in mpg, but part of me says to stick with 0w-20 for at least one more 10k run due to the 60k warranty.

 

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: tig1
Originally Posted By: buster
XOM uses Infineum's tri-nuclear moly which is a better moly according to them.

One paper showed 70 ppm was just as effective as 200 ppm at reducing the coefficient of friction.

They are also using new non metallic detergents.


This is why I said UOAs don't say a lot about the oil. Lots of experiance will.


Expereience? Perhaps.
I'll agree that uoa will aid in developing trends for a particular engine. Caterham sings the praises of this oil fairly often and from this,and other reports it validates his opinion.
As far as it being made by mobil so it has to be good I think mobil makes oil to a price point and any other certified oil will provide similar results.

 

[The Critic]

I should also add that I have 8500 miles on my current fill of Toyota 0w-20, and the oil level is 1/2 qt low. This is the first time that this car has ever consumed oil.

 

[buster]

Go with the M1 5w30 and test again at 10k miles. TGMO is good, but I highly doubt it's better than Mobil 1. XOM's flagship product is Mobil 1.

 

[asharris7]

Originally Posted By: buster
Go with the M1 5w30 and test again at 10k miles. TGMO is good, but I highly doubt it's better than Mobil 1. XOM's flagship product is Mobil 1.


Isn't that like saying the Napa Platinum filter (made by wix) couldn't be better than Wix's flagship, the Wix gold?

 

[buster]

Originally Posted By: asharris7
Originally Posted By: buster
Go with the M1 5w30 and test again at 10k miles. TGMO is good, but I highly doubt it's better than Mobil 1. XOM's flagship product is Mobil 1.


Isn't that like saying the Napa Platinum filter (made by wix) couldn't be better than Wix's flagship, the Wix gold?


I guess you could say that, but I don't believe it. TGMO is a unique oil, and has some advantages, but I don't think it's a better oil than AFE 0w20. My .02.

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: buster
Go with the M1 5w30 and test again at 10k miles. TGMO is good, but I highly doubt it's better than Mobil 1. XOM's flagship product is Mobil 1.

You're suggesting going to a heavier grade because the Prius used a pint of oil in 8,500 miles?
And I thought we have gotten over using these "good", "best" and "better" adjectives in comparing oils?
The Mobil made TGMO 0W-20 is a very different oil to M1 AFE 0W-20. There should be no question that TGMO it is a more suitable lubricant for a Prius since that's the vehicle it was specifically designed for. Before Mobil took over as the supplier of the TGMO 0W-20 from Nippon Oil, Toyota could simply have requisitioned their existing AFE 0W-20 but that that's not what happened.
In another thread there was a Mobil link which mentioned the on going development they have with Toyota and other companies in the continual advancement of the company spec' motor oils. With that in mind, I wouldn't be surprised if Mobil puts more research development into the TGMO 0W-20 than their own AFE 0W-20.

 

[buster]

I don't think he should move to a 30 grade at this point. I think he is better off sticking to a 0w20.

As far as TGMO vs AFE, they are two different oils formulated very differently. AFE is 50% PAO and can handle extreme temperatures better. It's likely the volatility is lower for the M1, but I'm just speculating.

 

[asharris7]

I like AFE for the price. I am in North Carolina and will never see those extreme temps. The lowest it gets here is in the single digits. Average in the winter is around 28 I would guess. I am just going to stick with the TGMO or the Mazda I have in there currently for the winters and move to Amsoil again for the summer (ASM 0w20)

 

[martinq]

Originally Posted By: buster
XOM uses Infineum's tri-nuclear moly which is a better moly according to them. One paper showed 70 ppm was just as effective as 200 ppm at reducing the coefficient of friction.

Yes, the trinuclear moly has been shown to be more effective at reducing wear than higher levels of other types. Increasing the dose beyond 75ppm showed small reduction in friction and cam wear bottomed-out around 50ppm.

I'd still prefer to have a 200ppm minimum dose of the trimer moly and maybe that's what you get in some of the Mobil 1 oils.

http://petroadd.com/products/pa-tm
http://www.infineum.com/Documents/...Molybdenum Additive Technology Japan Tribolog 202009.pdf

 

[yota4me]

Originally Posted By: The Critic
Originally Posted By: yota4me
Originally Posted By: CMMeadAM
Under "filter" is states "15 microns." Which cartridge filter is this ?
Great looking report !


I guess I forgot to answer this. It was a genuine Toyota filter.


Isn't the "15 microns" rating for a Toyota filter an error? Amsoil's testing showed it's 51% at 20 microns.
http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/eao.aspx

 

[asharris7]

We still don't know if tgmo is tri nuclear or not...

 

[buster]

Originally Posted By: martinq
Originally Posted By: buster
XOM uses Infineum's tri-nuclear moly which is a better moly according to them. One paper showed 70 ppm was just as effective as 200 ppm at reducing the coefficient of friction.

Yes, the trinuclear moly has been shown to be more effective at reducing wear than higher levels of other types. Increasing the dose beyond 75ppm showed small reduction in friction and cam wear bottomed-out around 50ppm.

I'd still prefer to have a 200ppm minimum dose of the trimer moly and maybe that's what you get in some of the Mobil 1 oils.

http://petroadd.com/products/pa-tm
http://www.infineum.com/Documents/...Molybdenum Additive Technology Japan Tribolog 202009.pdf


Thanks for those links.

I couldn't tell you because I'm not a formulator, or chemist. That's something that only they would know.

Motor oils are very complex formulations and well balanced. Increasing one thing could worsen the performance of another. That is why aftermarket additives are a waste of time and money.

 

[martinq]

Originally Posted By: asharris7
We still don't know if tgmo is tri nuclear or not...

According to user madmax_ooohhh who is retired from the field, it certainly adds up that they're indeed using the trimer moly for Toyota. 'from Infineum' and 'due to it's efficient nature' sums it up to me.


http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...431#Post2552431

"OK, just got a reply email from my colleague, and he confirmed that we are using a moly from Infineum for the Toyota formula. Apparently, we are using a smaller amount due to it's efficient nature."

 

[buster]

Petroadd is interesting.