top tier gas brands

[Skippy722]

Yes. 85 is allowed. “ + or - 2 “ is what’s posted in NC. My V8 crew cab doesn’t like 85 octane.

I didn’t say 85 didn’t exist, but that the “minimum” means something. Per the FTC, “In cases involving gasoline, the octane rating may be rounded to a whole or half number equal to or less than the number certified to you or determined by you.” I personally have never seen a pump say “XX octane +/-2” only the minimum.

87 can test as 88, they’ll round that down 87 (except for E15 in my area, that’s rated 88 minimum). Failure to comply can result in fines and other federal court drama.

https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/business-center/guidance/complying-ftc-fuel-rating-rule

 

[Blinker]

I didn’t say 85 didn’t exist, but that the “minimum” means something. Per the FTC, “In cases involving gasoline, the octane rating may be rounded to a whole or half number equal to or less than the number certified to you or determined by you.” I personally have never seen a pump say “XX octane +/-2” only the minimum.

87 can test as 88, they’ll round that down 87 (except for E15 in my area, that’s rated 88 minimum). Failure to comply can result in fines and other federal court drama.

https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/business-center/guidance/complying-ftc-fuel-rating-rule

As said previously it depends on the state. Most states have some sort of variance allowed which is defined by legislative body of government for said states. It’s usually a few tenths of a point. So 86.7, 86.8, 86.9 are rounded up to 87.

You buy and eat food that is allowed by law to have some percentage of insect matter in it. Do you see that written on any of the packages of food? No.

 

[PontiacHO]

I didn’t say 85 didn’t exist, but that the “minimum” means something. Per the FTC, “In cases involving gasoline, the octane rating may be rounded to a whole or half number equal to or less than the number certified to you or determined by you.” I personally have never seen a pump say “XX octane +/-2” only the minimum.

87 can test as 88, they’ll round that down 87 (except for E15 in my area, that’s rated 88 minimum). Failure to comply can result in fines and other federal court drama.

https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/business-center/guidance/complying-ftc-fuel-rating-rule

It does in NC.

 

[wemay]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_by_standard_octane_ratings

Can someone share a link for their state where a variance (lower than what's stated on the pump) is discussed?

I researched Florida and couldn't find anything.

 

[Skippy722]

As said previously it depends on the state. Most states have some sort of variance allowed which is defined by legislative body of government for said states. It’s usually a few tenths of a point. So 86.7, 86.8, 86.9 are rounded up to 87.

You buy and eat food that is allowed by law to have some percentage of insect matter in it. Do you see that written on any of the packages of food? No.

Unless you can provide proof of a state law that preempts the FTC, the FTC reigns supreme and they must round DOWN.

If a package of juice says it contains say 10% fruit juice, it must contain 10% fruit juice, not 9.7%.

 

[Blinker]

Unless you can provide proof of a state law that preempts the FTC, the FTC reigns supreme and they must round DOWN.

If a package of juice says it contains say 10% fruit juice, it must contain 10% fruit juice, not 9.7%.

I won’t be providing you anything. You can do further research if you wish.

 

[Skippy722]

I won’t be providing you anything. You can do further research if you wish.

Because you either don’t know what you’re talking about or can’t find any state code/law to back up what you’re saying. I feel like it’s a mix of both.

 

[y_p_w]

Unless you can provide proof of a state law that preempts the FTC, the FTC reigns supreme and they must round DOWN.

If a package of juice says it contains say 10% fruit juice, it must contain 10% fruit juice, not 9.7%.

It would of course be a violation of federal standards. I found North Carolina's requirements.

https://files.nc.gov/ncoah/documents/files/Volume-34-Issue-22-May-15-2020.pdf​

Octane rating shall not be less than the octane index certified on the brand name registration as required by 02 NCAC 42 .0500;​

​

http://reports.oah.state.nc.us/ncac...- gas and oil inspection/02 ncac 42 .0202.pdf​

02 NCAC 42 .0202 QUALITY OF MOTOR FUELS​

(a) A motor fuel shall be of the quality specifications as registered with the director.
(b) If any quality specification is displayed on a dispenser or in any public location where motor fuel is sold and said specification exceeds the quality specifications registered, the displayed specification shall become the legal minimum for all motor fuels so labeled or advertised.
(c) Any octane number or rating displayed shall be the octane index and no other number or rating.
(d) All other specifications displayed must be identified by name or designation except that the octane index may be used as part of a brand name after compliance with 2 NCAC 42 .0500.​

I'm trying to find where in the product specifications that variance is allowed other than higher than minimum.

https://colpipe.s3-us-west-1.amazon...03_055857.pdf?mtime=20190702225857&focal=none

 

[Blinker]

Because you either don’t know what you’re talking about or can’t find any state code/law to back up what you’re saying. I feel like it’s a mix of both.

It doesn’t bother me if you don’t believe me, that’s your prerogative. Fact is some states don’t do any octane testing whatsoever. The oil companies are so powerful that they have the rules written in their favor.

In Texas for example, their is an octane tolerance they use before they cite the gas station with fines. How do I know? Because I bought bad gas nearly a decade ago and I got to see the state test results. The test showed water content, metal content, unidentifiable content, and octane rating. The octane rating had an allowable tolerance, the other measurements did too I believe but the octane is what stood out to me.

What’s funny is a lot of people here talk about how their engine runs differently from one tank of gas to the other, with different levels of smoothness, power, and fuel economy. Pretty sure octane would have a lot to do with that.

If you really want to know about the octane you’re pumping in your tank, call up your state government and ask about it. You might find that your state doesn’t even test for octane, so there are no guarantees. Why? Again because the oil companies are that big and have lobbied for laws in their favor.

Read this if you want, sure a lot has changed since then but it will give you a clearer understanding of what you actually pump into your tank. FYI, for this testing alone they used a six-tenths octane point tolerance.

https://www.gao.gov/assets/rced-90-50.pdf

 

[Skippy722]

It doesn’t bother me if you don’t believe me, that’s your prerogative. Fact is some states don’t do any octane testing whatsoever. The oil companies are so powerful that they have the rules written in their favor.

In Texas for example, their is an octane tolerance they use before they cite the gas station with fines. How do I know? Because I bought bad gas nearly a decade ago and I got to see the state test results. The test showed water content, metal content, unidentifiable content, and octane rating. The octane rating had an allowable tolerance, the other measurements did too I believe but the octane is what stood out to me.

What’s funny is a lot of people here talk about how their engine runs differently from one tank of gas to the other, with different levels of smoothness, power, and fuel economy. Pretty sure octane would have a lot to do with that.

If you really want to know about the octane you’re pumping in your tank, call up your state government and ask about it. You might find that your state doesn’t even test for octane, so there are no guarantees. Why? Again because the oil companies are that big and have lobbied for laws in their favor.

Read this if you want, sure a lot has changed since then but it will give you a clearer understanding of what you actually pump into your tank. FYI, for this testing alone they used a six-tenths octane point tolerance.

https://www.gao.gov/assets/rced-90-50.pdf

2 of now have tried finding any law stating it’s okay to round octane ratings up and failed to do so, and I posted the latest FTC laws that state they must round down. That article is 31 years old, and the tests within it are from 1979-1987.

 

[Blinker]

2 of now have tried finding any law stating it’s okay to round octane ratings up and failed to do so, and I posted the latest FTC laws that state they must round down. That article is 31 years old, and the tests within it are from 1979-1987.

Ok, I’m tired of hearing you belly aching like a child. If you would have done your own research you would have found out that you are wrong.


https://www.ftc.gov/sites/default/files/filings/initiatives/335/100514tesoropresentation.pdf

Here, read this. If you still don’t believe me then just leave this thread to the adults and go to the Humor section. As I stated already, it depends on the state. Several states DO NOT test for octane. If you read the article in it’s entirety you will also notice a reference to “off spec” fuel. This is handled entirely depending on the state, and I can assure you that most states that test for octane have a “tolerance” for how “off spec” the octane be and still be sellable.

Edit: Adding newsworthy publications for the state of Ohio.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cincinnati.com/amp/3216746002

https://www.butlercountyauditor.org/Portals/0/PDF/Fuel quality proposal page 2018 p.pdf

 

[Blinker]

I didn’t say 85 didn’t exist, but that the “minimum” means something. Per the FTC, “In cases involving gasoline, the octane rating may be rounded to a whole or half number equal to or less than the number certified to you or determined by you.” I personally have never seen a pump say “XX octane +/-2” only the minimum.

87 can test as 88, they’ll round that down 87 (except for E15 in my area, that’s rated 88 minimum). Failure to comply can result in fines and other federal court drama.

https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/business-center/guidance/complying-ftc-fuel-rating-rule

Plain as day from your very own link, the FTC says to report any non-compliance issues with your state or local government. I’ve already posted that each state is different and many do no test for octane. Therefore it is highly probable to pump fuel lower in octane than what’s stated at the pump.

 

[wemay]

Are there two issues being discussed here? One being that states allow a variance downward. We know upwards is acceptable. The other one being that some suppliers may fudge the numbers and not be supplying what they say they are. I don't think this is disputed...not by me at least.

 

[Skippy722]

Ok, I’m tired of hearing you belly aching like a child. If you would have done your own research you would have found out that you are wrong.


https://www.ftc.gov/sites/default/files/filings/initiatives/335/100514tesoropresentation.pdf

Here, read this. If you still don’t believe me then just leave this thread to the adults and go to the Humor section. As I stated already, it depends on the state. Several states DO NOT test for octane. If you read the article in it’s entirety you will also notice a reference to “off spec” fuel. This is handled entirely depending on the state, and I can assure you that most states that test for octane have a “tolerance” for how “off spec” the octane be and still be sellable.

Edit: Adding newsworthy publications for the state of Ohio.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cincinnati.com/amp/3216746002

https://www.butlercountyauditor.org/Portals/0/PDF/Fuel quality proposal page 2018 p.pdf

All I did was ask you to back up what you were saying and you decided to get an attitude. You then post a 30+ year old letter that really has no relevance today, and when I point that out I’m the child? I’m sorry for not finding one of 3 states out of 50 that don’t test fuel quality, my bad The only child here is you with you’re god awful attitude.

 

[manicrodder]

I didn’t say 85 didn’t exist, but that the “minimum” means something. Per the FTC, “In cases involving gasoline, the octane rating may be rounded to a whole or half number equal to or less than the number certified to you or determined by you.” I personally have never seen a pump say “XX octane +/-2” only the minimum.

87 can test as 88, they’ll round that down 87 (except for E15 in my area, that’s rated 88 minimum). Failure to comply can result in fines and other federal court drama.

https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/business-center/guidance/complying-ftc-fuel-rating-rule

I use 66. Their mid is 88.

 

[y_p_w]

View attachment 56137

Plain as day from your very own link, the FTC says to report any non-compliance issues with your state or local government. I’ve already posted that each state is different and many do no test for octane. Therefore it is highly probable to pump fuel lower in octane than what’s stated at the pump.

The image you provided says to additionally file a complaint with the FTC. If it doesn't meet the federal 16 CFR Part 306 regulations, then that's out of compliance with federal requirements and the feds can go after anyone selling an improperly labelled fuel.

https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-i...a860ef420879&mc=true&node=pt16.1.306&rgn=div5

 

[OilBeBack]

I switch off from Costco and Exxon. Costco is such a chore to deal with, mostly just all the people. I like Exxon, mainly because they seem to be the only ones that give out any sort of details as to what their additive package actually does. The other brands are just like "it'll clean your engine" yeah but HOW? At least Exxon (and Mobil) tell you what it does specifically. I'll also grab Sunoco when I'm around one but they're all very far from me.

I should add too that Exxon stations seem to be one step above the plethora of shell stations in my area in terms of pump technology and cleanliness at the pump, but my local Chevron stations are spotless.

 

[bbhero]

Yes. 85 is allowed. “ + or - 2 “ is what’s posted in NC. My V8 crew cab doesn’t like 85 octane.

I believe that this is true. "+ Or - 2" in regards to octane number. That's two who numbers or 20 points higher or lower than what's posted on that pump. Quite a variable range there.

 

[Blinker]

The image you provided says to additionally file a complaint with the FTC. If it doesn't meet the federal 16 CFR Part 306 regulations, then that's out of compliance with federal requirements and the feds can go after anyone selling an improperly labelled fuel.

https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-i...a860ef420879&mc=true&node=pt16.1.306&rgn=div5

Wrong. The states are in charge of the sale of motor fuels. The states report to the FTC and would report their findings to the FTC, if in fact the FTC was ever notified.

 

[Blinker]

Okay, I’m done with this. I will post the whole thing but will also attach a photo for easier viewing. The two main tests used for testing fuel octane rating has a wide range of variability, hence why there is a variance when it comes to spot testing fuel.

https://www.ftc.gov/system/files/documents/public_comments/2014/07/00891-92186.pdf