Too many electronics make for a dangerous car?

[KrisZ]

I think, things that can control brakes, accelerator and steering can be dangerous. We have adaptive cruise controls that can brake accelerate and even steer without driver's input. How will these systems behave after 10-15 years of usage, corrosion and general wear and tear? Who's to guarantee that your active cruise control wont drive you into a ditch one day when the lines aren't painted perfectly on the road.

I am not against electronics in places where they truly make difference, i.e engine management, active AWD systems, airbags and active restaraint systems, but things like self parking, active cruise controls, start buttons etc. are just toys for masses to justify their 50k car purchase.

 

[lexus114]

Originally Posted By: Kiwi_ME
Originally Posted By: lexus114
yep and watch the tach bounce off the rev limiter. although i`d rather kill the motor,than myself.
you're not going to "kill" your motor, what's more the actual rev limit may be significantly lower in neutral.


ok,ok sheesh.

 

[Kestas]

Originally Posted By: John K
Some of the electronics is there because of the goal of ever increasing MPG targets. Electric power steering to reduce the load on the engine, and electronic control of the throttle to gain more precise control to further MPG and/or control emissions... Supposed to be progress.....

All the money saved on fuel eventually goes to the mechanic who fixes these features when they go wrong.

For example, I recently had a charging issue with my 71 Cutlass. It dawned on me that I could replace every component related to this issue (battery, alternator, volt reg) for under $150. Try doing that with items like electronic throttle, electric steering, etc.

 

[Paul56]

I heard similar arguments when tube based television sets were being replace the "solid state" electronic sets.

So what happened to the TV repair shops that use to be plentiful?

They mostly disappeared... due to increased reliability.

 

[lexus114]

I used to love looking in the back of those old tv`s and see all of that orange glow going on in their..^^^^^

 

[Gary Allan]

Originally Posted By: Kestas
I've mentioned before that automotive technology hasn't really advanced significantly in the past 20 years. I wonder if this increased complexity added to vehicles is a way for engineering departments to justify their existence within the automotive companies.


I think the automotive sector has a lot married to it that encourages these somewhat senseless (my opinion) evolutions. It sorta does lots of things with money and employment that would not otherwise be possible in such an integrated manner, let alone the secondary and tertiary markets. It's an octopus with children.

 

[Kestas]

Also realize that most of these electronic features are in addition to the usual parts we repair. Not all electronics supplant the old machinery.

Paul, I can only hope what you say is true. I've had a horrible experience with all the "convenience" features on my 95 Mercedes. The problems are nearly all electronic. This is a car with only 95K and it has never seen salt.

 

[Gary Allan]

Originally Posted By: Paul56
I heard similar arguments when tube based television sets were being replace the "solid state" electronic sets.

So what happened to the TV repair shops that use to be plentiful?

They mostly disappeared... due to increased reliability.

Well, yes and no. It's true to a decent degree, but it's more a situation of labor exceeding the cost of buying new. You may or may not be old enough to recall the Proctor Silex ad campaign in the mid 60's. Before then you got your toaster repaired by a small appliance repair person. Proctor Silex advertised the "modular" appliance where one merely replaced the sub assembly. It was all trash talk since no one carried the sub assemblies and merely gave you a new, but very cheap, toaster.

So, sure, my solid state television lasts a lot longer in hours than the money I put into it (zero beyond purchase), but it's scrapped due to labor rates and obsolete parts.

At this point it has been superseded with other technologies ..so it's sorta a moot point ..but that doesn't nullify the reasons.

 

[SuperBusa]

Just don't put a ham radio in the car!

 

[Kiwi_ME]

Don't forget tube-type TVs were so reliable that even 7-11's and such used to have the tube checkers so consumers could test and replace vacuum tubes themselves. Perhaps today they could provide an OBD-II cable to run out your car!

Originally Posted By: KrisZ
I think, things that can control brakes, accelerator and steering can be dangerous. We have adaptive cruise controls that can brake accelerate and even steer without driver's input...

But given product liability risks (esp in the USA mrkt) don't you think they are designed very carefully? Lots of things have microcontrollers these days and work just fine. Given the volume of vehicles sold I think cars are pretty darn reliable. Perhaps our relatively-unreliable personal computer OS's have made us skeptical?

 

[labman]

The tube type TV's is an invalid comparison. There is no doubt fuel injection and computer controlled spark has increased reliability and performance radically. The problem is all the features being loaded onto even the simplest cars. I view the complications of the Body Control Module on my 02 Cavalier as unacceptable. I have no need for any of the features it adds. I despise having to pay for annoyances that only make repairs more difficult.

 

[mechanicx]

I agree that it is the body funtion controller that over complicates things. You have to have a factory scanner to link into it. If the BCM codes weren't proprietary it wouldn't be so bad.

 

[Kiwi_ME]

The BCM in my Suzuki simply flashes out the codes on the alarm LED without needing a scanner. And the BCM adds nothing that most drivers wouldn't expect and simply integrates functions no doubt previously implemented with clumsier separate electronics, plus adds diagnostics. From the FSM:

• Power door lock
• Keyless entry
• Rear wiper [delay]
• Combination meter [dashboard instruments and lights]
• Interior light [delay off]
• Warning buzzer
• Rear door window defogger [timer]
• Door mirror heater (if equipped)
• Rear end door opener
• Theft deterrent light

 

[mechanicx]

That's not how it is with all makes. Some you can't get any codes without a factory scanner. You can't even replace the radio or diagnosis electrical problems without the scanner.

 

[lexus114]

I like my old Chrysler Laser,flip the ignition key back a forth a few times,and it flashed the code for you.

 

[johnd]

Considering that most airplanes are now "fly by wire", I think the technology is pretty reliable.

 

[Kestas]

How about the Airbus that experienced a controlled (by-wire) landing into a forest, killing all on board?
How about the recent airplane crash off Brazil, surmised to be largely the result of fly-by-wire gone wrong, also killing all on board?
Try telling those people and their families that fly-by-wire technology is pretty reliable.
In both cases, pilots tried to take control of the airplane, but the by-wire technology wouldn't let them.

Yes, by-wire technology is used in commercial aircraft. But there's a lot of pilots who complain that the technology has gotten so intrusive that the latest aircraft will not allow the pilot to take over in critical situations. This leaves a lot of pilots uneasy about this technology.

 

[lexus114]

remember,big rigs also use drive by wire.

I remember when I was on the road with TMC (a trucking Co.out of Iowa) my check engine light came on and only gave me 2 minutes to find a safe place to pull over before it shut down. Talk about a stress full situation?

 

[labman]

Originally Posted By: Kiwi_ME
The BCM in my Suzuki simply flashes out the codes on the alarm LED without needing a scanner. And the BCM adds nothing that most drivers wouldn't expect and simply integrates functions no doubt previously implemented with clumsier separate electronics, plus adds diagnostics. From the FSM:

• Power door lock
• Keyless entry
• Rear wiper [delay]
• Combination meter [dashboard instruments and lights]
• Interior light [delay off]
• Warning buzzer
• Rear door window defogger [timer]
• Door mirror heater (if equipped)
• Rear end door opener
• Theft deterrent light


All useless junk.

 

[eljefino]

Originally Posted By: lexus114
remember,big rigs also use drive by wire.

I remember when I was on the road with TMC (a trucking Co.out of Iowa) my check engine light came on and only gave me 2 minutes to find a safe place to pull over before it shut down. Talk about a stress full situation?


As frightful as that is it would be great to see that technology trickle down to the idiots who drive for months with lit CELs because they'd rather spend money on cigarettes...