To Change Or Not To Change: Mazda ATF FZ Trans Fluid

[rollandrahr]

I purchased a 2016 CX-9 in August of 2021. In September of 2021 I had the trans fluid changed because the trans was doing something weird. Only from a cold start, for the first ten to fifteen minutes, the trans wants to shift way too fast into a high gear. Moving out slowly, by the time I'm up to ten miles an hour, it's already looking for fourth. After the vehicle is fully warmed up, the trans functions perfectly - literally perfect behavior both up and down shifting, imperceptible shift from park into drive or reverse, no slippage, etc. When the fluid was changed in September, what came out was red and looked perfect, clear and no metal particles. On a quest to figure out the weird behavior, I took it to my local Mazda dealer, whereupon I was informed the trans fluid currently in the vehicle is the wrong fluid. Mazda fluid is blue. I verified with the faciIity that did the trans service they used MV fluid. I did substantial checking around and found one facility who suggested FZ fluid is simply ATF with dye in it to make you believe you need to buy it from Mazda. While that seems questionable to me, I do want to do the right thing. So - what course of action to take now? Keep the MV fluid in it and move on? Go through a series of three fluid changes to move from MV to FZ? Any light that can be shown on this will be sooooo appreciated, including any theories on what might be causing the strange (cold) behavior.

 

[nicholas]

I purchased a 2016 CX-9 in August of 2021. In September of 2021 I had the trans fluid changed because the trans was doing something weird. Only from a cold start, for the first ten to fifteen minutes, the trans wants to shift way too fast into a high gear. Moving out slowly, by the time I'm up to ten miles an hour, it's already looking for fourth. After the vehicle is fully warmed up, the trans functions perfectly - literally perfect behavior both up and down shifting, imperceptible shift from park into drive or reverse, no slippage, etc. When the fluid was changed in September, what came out was red and looked perfect, clear and no metal particles. On a quest to figure out the weird behavior, I took it to my local Mazda dealer, whereupon I was informed the trans fluid currently in the vehicle is the wrong fluid. Mazda fluid is blue. I verified with the faciIity that did the trans service they used MV fluid. I did substantial checking around and found one facility who suggested FZ fluid is simply ATF with dye in it to make you believe you need to buy it from Mazda. While that seems questionable to me, I do want to do the right thing. So - what course of action to take now? Keep the MV fluid in it and move on? Go through a series of three fluid changes to move from MV to FZ? Any light that can be shown on this will be sooooo appreciated, including any theories on what might be causing the strange (cold) behavior.

Change it......its so easy.
Easier than an oil change.
Syn fluid.....nothing overly special.

 

[nicholas]

I purchased a 2016 CX-9 in August of 2021. In September of 2021 I had the trans fluid changed because the trans was doing something weird. Only from a cold start, for the first ten to fifteen minutes, the trans wants to shift way too fast into a high gear. Moving out slowly, by the time I'm up to ten miles an hour, it's already looking for fourth. After the vehicle is fully warmed up, the trans functions perfectly - literally perfect behavior both up and down shifting, imperceptible shift from park into drive or reverse, no slippage, etc. When the fluid was changed in September, what came out was red and looked perfect, clear and no metal particles. On a quest to figure out the weird behavior, I took it to my local Mazda dealer, whereupon I was informed the trans fluid currently in the vehicle is the wrong fluid. Mazda fluid is blue. I verified with the faciIity that did the trans service they used MV fluid. I did substantial checking around and found one facility who suggested FZ fluid is simply ATF with dye in it to make you believe you need to buy it from Mazda. While that seems questionable to me, I do want to do the right thing. So - what course of action to take now? Keep the MV fluid in it and move on? Go through a series of three fluid changes to move from MV to FZ? Any light that can be shown on this will be sooooo appreciated, including any theories on what might be causing the strange (cold) behavior.

Get the red crap out and have the dealer that screwed it up pay for it.

Fz is definitely blue ...
No mistake at all...blue

 

[nicholas]

The cold behavior is from the cold flow properties of MV.....FZ is a full syn in every sense, with a very low pour point.

Get it out.. and have yours trans adaptive values reset.

Mv should never have been used.....

 

[BMW Dom]

Is it some special elixir?

 

[ekrampitzjr]

I find it interesting that some people here obsess over finding ATF or engine oil that meets some German car maker's spec 1234.99 000 OU812, but then they want to question a Japanese manufacturer's specified fluid. That's how you get someone claiming Mazda just colors it blue so you have to buy that fluid. No one says that VW's or BMW's specs are nonsense and you can use any ol' ATF instead.

Mazda blue FZ does not interchange with anything else. Even Amsoil, Red Line, and the other boutique manufacturers don't try to claim their ATFs can be used in place of FZ. However, Ravenol has a bona fide FZ equivalent that is also blue.

I have access to Mazda in-house technical literature, and the material is very emphatic about not substituting any red ATF for FZ, not even past Mazda ATFs such as MV/M5.

 

[haggler]

Plenty of people using maxlife in those transmissions as well as others like Idemitsu. I'd see if there is any TCU reflash available or if the ATF level is in fact correct first. Lots of dealers dont even use the OEM fluid.

 

[Greasymechtech]

https://aisinaftermarket.com/uploads/v7pqio6a_ATF-MFZ_Product_Annoucement_copy.pdf

https://aisinaftermarket.com/uploads/qfq1j6k2_ATF-MFZ_TDS.pdf

ATF Fluid - RAVENOL FZ Fluid

RAVENOL AMERICA is the official distributor in the US and Canada for RAVENOL oils and lubricants.

www.ravenolamerica.com

ATF FZ Blue

TIPP OIL Manufacturer LTD Manufacturer with its own factory of the Tipp Oil Made in Germany car. Truck engine oils, universal oils for agriculture and construction machinery, two-wheel motor oils, two-stroke motor oils, gear oils etc. Our Tipp Oil Manufacturer Ltd. is active in the international...

www.tippoil.com

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2018/MC-10136778-9999.pdf

Did the weird behavior continue after your drain/refill?

Switch to a LV full synthetic ATF mentioning the FZ spec. The problem with unknown fluids is that the recommendations of that unknown ATF might not meet the FZ requirements. So, what is MV? If its Mazda MV fluid... wrong fluid. If its Mercon-V, wrong fluid. If its MultiVehicle ATF, you need to verify that its LV and full synthetic.

If you like the color blue, use the OE fluid or one from the links above. WIth Aisin available online for $11/qt and Ravenol on Amazon for $80/gallon, you can avoid your local Mazda dealer if you want.

If the transmission is functioning perfectly now, consider 1 drain/refill with a FZ blue specific ATF and see how the transmission feels. If all is well, repeat again in 20k-30k miles and continue your drain/refills during your ownership.

If the transmission is NOT functioning perfectly now, and level has been verified, then consider the 3-4 drain/refills over the next few weeks of commuting. If after 3-4 drain/refills, you should have a good idea if the transmission is doing OK or not. If not, obviously not an ATF or level problem.


Check out that Tippoil.... its a blue dyed ATF for Mazda FZ that can be used for various other transmissions. I now can use blue fluid to match the paint color in my Toyota, Kia, and Nissan.

 

[ekrampitzjr]

Mazda's transmission reman facility regularly gets SKYACTIV cores for reman that had red ATF inside instead of blue FZ. Those were typically units a car owner had to pay to replace after the transmission was serviced elsewhere, the transmission failed, and a Mazda dealer discovered the incorrect fluid. Often the car had been bought used and the used-car dealer had prepped the car by changing fluids while ignoring the FZ requirement.

Incorrect fluid voids the warranty, period, and Mazda dealers have been warned not to use "universal" ATFs in FZ transmissions.

 

[ekrampitzjr]

Idemitsu makes FZ ATF for Mazda. There seem to be no published specs anywhere for it to allow comparison with other ATFs, but this is no surprise. Mazda regards the SKYACTIV transmission technologies and ATF as proprietary products. This was one reason FZ transmission reman was brought in-house.

No outside companies have been authorized to reman any of the SKYACTIV automatics, and most internal parts are not made available to dealers, which are instructed to send failed units to the reman center instead of attempting overhaul.

 

[Greasymechtech]

No indie transmission shop is authorized to rebuild ANY transmission. Aftermarket has parts available and 'competent' transmission shop should be able to source parts and offer rebuilds. Just because dealers aren't competent enough to rebuild a transmission, doesn't mean anyone else can't. Centralized in house warranty rebuilds are nothing new.

BTW, Mazda Skyactiv 6-speed auto was co-developed with Aisin and is loosely based on the U660/U760 aka Toyota 6-speed.

Don't fall for the lifetime ATF and maintain it.

 

[slacktide_bitog]

Welcome to BITOG

You can use Maxlife with no problem. You don't have to use the expensive blue FZ

And yes, dealers usually don't use OEM fluids for customer pay work, only for warranty/recall work paid for by the mfr. For customer-pay work, they use generic bulk fluids

Most new cars make the transmission seek high gears at low speeds for CAFE purposes. Mazda probably figures the car will rust before you have any problems with it

 

[rollandrahr]

Thanks all for the immediate responses! I am going to do a series of three drain/fills spaced about thirty days apart to get the correct FZ fluid in there. FYI this has never been an issue of cost. I definitely want to do what is best for the vehicle. Regarding the transmission's quick shifting, I've observed in many cars transmissions eagerly getting to a high gear, but this one is way faster than normal, I assure you. After the trans fluid change, last September, (I verified the shop used MV fluid, which supposedly meets FZ specs) there was no change in performance. FYI I also attempted a tcm reset (ignition on, accelerator depressed for 30 seconds, ignition off), to no avail. Given the trans works perfectly once warmed up, if I have to grin and bear it and live with this, I can, but I'd prefer not to. I'll post again once the fluid changes have been performed for an update.

 

[bulwnkl]

It’s very difficult to find an aftermarket ATF that matches just the kinematic viscosity of Mazda’s FZ fluid, nevermind any hidden ‘spec’ Mazda may claim to have. None of the universal fluids I have seen are the right viscosity.

I use FZ in mine because I have a good dealer who is price-competitive and actually stocks parts. I also experienced a major improvement in shift quality when I changed the fluid when I bought the most recent car at 7x,xxx miles. The old fluid was very dark, but seemed to me to have a red tint to it.

 

[rollandrahr]

I found a Mazda dealer about thirty miles from me that sells the Mazda FZ fluid for $13 per quart. I plan on making a trip there and buying 27 quarts, to be used for three separate changes, (8.5 qts per change) spaced about a month apart. I would rather err on the side of spending too much and having the peace of mind knowing it's a blue-blood than to worry about failure I could have prevented or forestalled. I also have my fingers crossed the weird behavior goes away. After the third fluid change, I'll post and let you all know the result.

 

[bulwnkl]

8.5 quarts per change? Wow! The SkyActive Drive 6-speeds in the 6, for example, take about 4 qts for a drain-and-fill. 6 qts at the outside will let you drop the pan and replace the strainer, too.
Are you sure you need 8.5 qts for a drain-and-fill?

 

[rollandrahr]

I was shocked, and saddened to know how empty my wallet would be after finding this out. Attached is a screen shot of what I found on the interweb. I was assusming the filter would be replaced each time as well. Thankfully I have a terrific mechanic who charges me actual time rather than fixed rate, so the labor part of this isn't causing me palpitations.

 

[ekrampitzjr]

No indie transmission shop is authorized to rebuild ANY transmission. Aftermarket has parts available and 'competent' transmission shop should be able to source parts and offer rebuilds. Just because dealers aren't competent enough to rebuild a transmission, doesn't mean anyone else can't. Centralized in house warranty rebuilds are nothing new.

BTW, Mazda Skyactiv 6-speed auto was co-developed with Aisin and is loosely based on the U660/U760 aka Toyota 6-speed.

Don't fall for the lifetime ATF and maintain it.

CAT Reman, an arm of Caterpillar, was once the authorized reman company for certain Mazda engines and transmissions in North America. It was allowed full access to obtain necessary factory parts.

 

[nicholas]

8.5 quarts per change? Wow! The SkyActive Drive 6-speeds in the 6, for example, take about 4 qts for a drain-and-fill. 6 qts at the outside will let you drop the pan and replace the strainer, too.
Are you sure you need 8.5 qts for a drain-and-fill?

8 is the total capacity -
the drain is closer to 4 quarts.

 

[nicholas]

I was shocked, and saddened to know how empty my wallet would be after finding this out. Attached is a screen shot of what I found on the interweb. I was assusming the filter would be replaced each time as well. Thankfully I have a terrific mechanic who charges me actual time rather than fixed rate, so the labor part of this isn't causing me palpitations.

8 is the total capacity - - - - no drain will ever give you even close to the 8 quarts.
4 quarts per drain - and that is if you drain it over night.
3.4-7 quarts is more likely.

27 is WAY too much for what you want to do.
4x3 is more like it.