To change or not to change from API SN to SN+... or SP 🤔

Joined
Sep 21, 2022
Messages
6
Location
Sweden
Hello!

I need help to decide.

I'm new to the world of oils but I understand some things.

I have a 2018 Honda Civic Type R with some "bolt ons" and a remap. Power went up from 316 hp to 400 and torque from 400 Nm to 500. The last thi g I will do is to mount a water-methanol injection kit.

The OEM oil is Honda 0w-20, API SN and, I belive ACEA A5/B5 (not sure)

Some time ago I decided to change to 0w-40 (all others performance small cars use 0w-40 or 5w-40 oils), stick to API SN but go with ACEA A3/B4. In my understanding the higher SAPS and higher HTHS of A3/B4 should protect more the engine.

At this moment I have Motul 8100 X-Max 0w-40 (SN, A3/B4) in my engine.



Now I read about SN+ and SP and find that they protect more against LSPI while SP oils ar even better for protection against timing chains elongation, sludge formation and oxidation.



0w-40 is only as a SN+ oil (ACEA C3). Where I buy motor oil they have Mobil 1 ESP 0w-40 and Shell Helix Ultra 0w-40

The SP oils that starts with 0w- and I can find here (in Sweden) are 20 or 30. (also ACEA C3). They are the Castrol Edge 0w-30 and the Mobil 1 ESP 0w-30.



What should I do? Stick with 0w-40 as many other high output 2.0 engines use and buy an API SN+ oil or go down to 0w-30 (which is still of a higher viscosity than OE oil) and buy the newer SP oil? Or stay with the ACEA A3/B4 API SN oil that I use now?



Thank you!
 
Joined
Dec 19, 2019
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Muncie, Indiana
SP oils are even better for protection against timing chains elongation, sludge formation and oxidation.
A lot of the criteria you've mentioned are more so tied to ILSAC GF-6 than the API designation, while all GF-6 oils have to be SP, all SP oils don't have to meet the GF-6 requirements.
 
Joined
Jun 8, 2022
Messages
832
High Calcium is the evil ingrediant that promotes LSPI. I wouldn't go thinner you are putting more stress on the parts when running the car hard.
Is the ILSAC 6A have more calcium than earlier SN and SN+. I was lead to believe elswhere that the only things that really changed was the ILSAC 6B - ie 0w-16 for LSPI, etc?
 

TheBigG

Thread starter
Joined
Sep 21, 2022
Messages
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Location
Sweden
In your application I would forget API and ILSAC specifications and follow ACEA. Is you engine GDI or TGDI? If so I think ACEA C3 is what you need. If not then it would be ACEA A3/B4.
Thank you! It is a TGDI. Why C3 over A3/B4?
I forgot to mention that i dont do any trak days. Only daly driving.
 
Joined
Dec 6, 2017
Messages
1,260
Location
Suomi
Hello!

I need help to decide.

I'm new to the world of oils but I understand some things.

I have a 2018 Honda Civic Type R with some "bolt ons" and a remap. Power went up from 316 hp to 400 and torque from 400 Nm to 500. The last thi g I will do is to mount a water-methanol injection kit.

The OEM oil is Honda 0w-20, API SN and, I belive ACEA A5/B5 (not sure)

Some time ago I decided to change to 0w-40 (all others performance small cars use 0w-40 or 5w-40 oils), stick to API SN but go with ACEA A3/B4. In my understanding the higher SAPS and higher HTHS of A3/B4 should protect more the engine.

At this moment I have Motul 8100 X-Max 0w-40 (SN, A3/B4) in my engine.



Now I read about SN+ and SP and find that they protect more against LSPI while SP oils ar even better for protection against timing chains elongation, sludge formation and oxidation.



0w-40 is only as a SN+ oil (ACEA C3). Where I buy motor oil they have Mobil 1 ESP 0w-40 and Shell Helix Ultra 0w-40

The SP oils that starts with 0w- and I can find here (in Sweden) are 20 or 30. (also ACEA C3). They are the Castrol Edge 0w-30 and the Mobil 1 ESP 0w-30.



What should I do? Stick with 0w-40 as many other high output 2.0 engines use and buy an API SN+ oil or go down to 0w-30 (which is still of a higher viscosity than OE oil) and buy the newer SP oil? Or stay with the ACEA A3/B4 API SN oil that I use now?



Thank you!
Shell Helix Ultra 5w-40 is a good oil to use in that engine. It have many approvals and spec that many Xw-40 does not have. It have also a low noack and its also cheap. Actually one of the best Xw-40 oil around.
 
Joined
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I didn't say you need to, all I said, is that SP doesn't mean much over SN for non-ILSAC grades. You'd be best off looking for the most stringent Euro approvals like MB229.52, BMW LL-04, VW511 or 504/507, Porsche C30 or C40.
why would it be best to use a c3 oil a engine that can handle a A3 api sn plus without any problem?
 
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Thank you! It is a TGDI. Why C3 over A3/B4?
I forgot to mention that i dont do any trak days. Only daly driving.
Forgot to ask if you get any fuel in the oil after the tune up? Usually c3 have poor tbn need to be changed little sooner than a full saps. But c3 have lower ash and can be better for carbon build up on valves. Also full saps will be better for cold climate, but that depends on your driving style and if your drive in the winter or how much cold start you do and how much water there is in the fuel. Aslo Honda doesn't suffer from lspi. But can do so if you have tuned the car.
 

TheBigG

Thread starter
Joined
Sep 21, 2022
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Location
Sweden
Forgot to ask if you get any fuel in the oil after the tune up? Usually c3 have poor tbn need to be changed little sooner than a full saps. But c3 have lower ash and can be better for carbon build up on valves. Also full saps will be better for cold climate, but that depends on your driving style and if your drive in the winter or how much cold start you do and how much water there is in the fuel. Aslo Honda doesn't suffer from lspi. But can do so if you have tuned the car.
I have a catch can and I do get some oil in it, a bit more compared to my friend who has the same car but unchanged. This oil smells a bit like gasoline but it is the same smell in my friends catch can also. He uses Hondas oil. I havent tried the catch can with oem oil, only with Motul 8100 X-Max 0w-40.
I do drive my car in winter, I use it as a daily drive.
 
Joined
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South Carolina
Thank you! It is a TGDI. Why C3 over A3/B4?
I forgot to mention that i dont do any trak days. Only daly driving.
A3/B4 Stable, stay-in-grade engine oil intended for use at extended oil drain intervals in passenger car and light-duty
gasoline & DI diesel engines, but also suitable for applications described under A3/B3. (EDIT ADD: HTHS viscosity of minimum 3.5 mPas.)

Note:
Warning:
These Oils will increase the DPF/GPF and TWC life and maintain the Vehicle’s Fuel Economy.
Some of these Categories may be unsuitable for use in certain Engine Types – consult the vehicle-
OEM’s owner’s manual/handbook in case of doubt.

C3 Stable, stay-in-grade engine oil with mid-SAPS Level, for aftertreatment system compatibility. Intended for use at
extended oil drain intervals in passenger car and light-duty gasoline & DI diesel engines designed for engine oils
with HTHS viscosity of minimum 3.5 mPas.
 

TheBigG

Thread starter
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Sep 21, 2022
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Sweden
Ok guys! Then the Mobil 1 ESP X3 0W-40 will be.
It is a ACEA C3, Api SN+, GM Dexos 2 and complies with MB 229.52.
Perfect! Thank you!
 
Joined
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Messages
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Ok guys! Then the Mobil 1 ESP X3 0W-40 will be.
It is a ACEA C3, Api SN+, GM Dexos 2 and complies with MB 229.52.
Perfect! Thank you!
Thats good, take a uoa after your run with that oil.. would be interesting if its pollute that oil with gasoline 🤔
 
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