To Be, or Not to Be - A REAL Synthetic...

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I have read somewhere that in Europe, or in certain European Countries, when they claim "100% Synthetic", that is what you get, 100% Synthetic "Laboratory Produced" Oil. I have also read somewhere, that the definition of 100% Synthetic in the USA is somewhat different. It has to contain "some" synthetic oil, I believe up to 15% to be called "100% Synthetic", the rest being conventional oil. Can someone please clarify this for me? I am NOT interested in AMSOIL products as they DO NOT offer the grade I am looking for in a Euro Spec high HTHS oil that meets MB 229.5 & BMW LL-01. Thank You for taking the time in specifying in which Country "Synthetic" actually means "Synthetic".
 
Originally Posted By: BritGerCarLuvr
...specifying in which Country "Synthetic" actually means "Synthetic".
Germany. smile
 
Originally Posted By: BritGerCarLuvr
the grade I am looking for in a Euro Spec high HTHS oil that meets MB 229.5 & BMW LL-01.
I think the closest you will come in easily available oils in the US is M1 0W40. Believe me I can be picky also about oils. I ordered 5 x 20L jugs of Delvac 1 LE 5W30 from Scotland, it cost $19/L with shipping!!! I put 2 into the hydraulic system of my unimog and am using the other 3 in my BMW X5 35d diesel; for which I am thoroughly convinced that the ACEA C3 oil Castrol SLX Professional OE 5W30 used by the dealer wears out of alkalinity and causes corrosive metal wear long before the computer prescribed OCI. Charlie
 
I'm not 100% sure but I think that in Europe 'Synthetic' means PAO or Group 5 while in America it can also mean Group 3. Europe has started the 'word games' (remember Bill Clinton) and now calls Group 3 oils "Synthetic technology' or something like that.
 
Originally Posted By: m37charlie
I think the closest you will come in easily available oils in the US is M1 0W40.
For the record, the newest M1 0w-40 is no longer classified as "full synthetic" in Germany. But I agree, as far as meeting those particular specs, it is probably the easiest to find.
 
GC, aka Castrol Syntec 0W-30 as well. Either QSUD 5W-40 or Ultra 5W-40 also exist and meet these specs, although I don't think you'll find either on a shelf anywhere. Both are Grp IIIs. The synthetic vs. not distinction means nothing. PAOs are superior to Grp IIIs in some ways and inferior in others. Focus on the spec required, not the purported basestock. Peformance matters, and both BMW and Mercedes have pretty demanding performance requirements in their specs. Any oil meeting their spec is a solid oil, and some Grp III oils will perform better than some Grp IVs in use. Check out the UOA forum.
 
So, therefore, would it be safe to make an "assumption" that GC, being "made in Germany" is totally synthetic as in PAO/Esther even though it was fabricated with the intent to be imported for the US market? ... and by the same token, Total Quartz Energy 9000, although claims to be "100% Syntthetic, being from France is a Group III (whatever that may be) and is not a "truly" synthetic oil? Thank You again for your replies.
 
Originally Posted By: BritGerCarLuvr
So, therefore, would it be safe to make an "assumption" that GC, being "made in Germany" is totally synthetic as in PAO/Esther even though it was fabricated with the intent to be imported for the US market?
I can't see how you could draw this conclusion. There isn't enough data here to determine this. A while back some BITOGers did an in-depth analysis of green GC and I believe the conclusion was that it was in fact fully synthetic. However, GC's formulation has changed since then, so we can't be sure what it is now. Still, as the other poster already mentioned, it makes more sense to focus on the oil's performance and the specs it meets rather than what it's made of.
 
Originally Posted By: BritGerCarLuvr
Where can I go to get information on these "Grp III, Grp IV" and so forth synthetics?
Are you asking about what that means? If so, read this: http://www.zddplus.com/TechBrief10%20-%20Oil%20Base%20Stocks.pdf Or are you asking about a breakdown that would explain which particular oil is comprised of which oil groups? If so, I'm afraid such a thing doesn't exist. Most oil mfgs consider it trade secret. We can only guess.
 
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Or are you asking about a breakdown that would explain which particular oil is comprised of which oil groups? If so, I'm afraid such a thing doesn't exist. Most oil mfgs consider it trade secret. We can only guess.
I was looking at Mobil 1's website one one of their FAQ pages, regarding Genuine Nissan Ester Oil. They suggest it might be synthetic or semi-synthetic. No, if a company with the tribology resources of Exxon-Mobil cannot readily determine complete base stock information from a competitor, I think all we're left with is our best guesses.
 
hank You SO much. That is exactly what I wanted to do. Simply understand the basics of each Group. Thank You Quatro Pete & everyone else who replied in this thread.
 
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
For the record, the newest M1 0w-40 is no longer classified as "full synthetic" in Germany. But I agree, as far as meeting those particular specs, it is probably the easiest to find.
oh what the [censored]? M1 isnt synthetic?
 
All the oils for the latest specifications from BMW/MB passenger cars appear to be a mix of gr 3/4/5. If base oil alone was the bees-knees then you would not see this shift. Euro only Castrol LL04 0w30 is only PAO I know of which carries the latest BMW spec.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: alwayson
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
For the record, the newest M1 0w-40 is no longer classified as "full synthetic" in Germany. But I agree, as far as meeting those particular specs, it is probably the easiest to find.
oh what the [censored]? M1 isnt synthetic?
It depends on what your definition of synthetic is.
 
Originally Posted By: BMWTurboDzl
All the oils for the latest specifications from BMW/MB passenger cars appear to be a mix of gr 3/4/5. If base oil alone was the bees-knees then you would not see this shift.
I agree. The term "base stock" we're throwing around has become almost as fuzzy as "synthetic". I noticed recently in reading something from Exxon/Mobil that they're using the expression "base stock blends". Is there any industry standard or regulation that says that in order to be classified as a Grp V oil the base stock must be made of at least 50% ester?
 
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: alwayson
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
For the record, the newest M1 0w-40 is no longer classified as "full synthetic" in Germany. But I agree, as far as meeting those particular specs, it is probably the easiest to find.
oh what the [censored]? M1 isnt synthetic?
It depends on what your definition of synthetic is.
yeah I did more research on this. so what is the recommended OCI for this new mobil 1 0w 40?
 
Originally Posted By: alwayson
so what is the recommended OCI for this new mobil 1 0w 40?
Same as the old one. From a performance perspective, the two formulations are comparable.
 
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