Timing Belts

[Matagonka]

Originally Posted By: UncleDave

Originally Posted By: Jimkobb

I was just curious . On today`s cars should a timing belt break would it cause damage to the engine? A car my daughter had some years back the engine was damaged when the belt broke.

There are two basic engine designs

An "interference engine" - when a belt breaks catastrophic damage will occur. A "non interference engine" - when a belt breaks you get stranded. This ^^^ Find out what kind of engine you have.

 

[SHOZ]

My 2008 Hyundai Accent has a belt. I'll be changing it again soon for the third time. Hardest part is putting the water pump pulley back on..... My 2010 Hyundai genesis Coupe 2L has a timing chain. It is prone to stretching and is an all day job to change that.

 

[Hokiefyd]

Originally Posted By: Miller88

Really, though. Any transverse engine is not easy.

I think "easy" is relative. A transverse 4 is probably more difficult than a transverse 6, though, just due to the extra length. I found the belts on our V-6 engines to be not only easy, but rather enjoyable. Because the belts are designed to be serviced, access is pretty straight-forward. I don't mind timing chains, but they had better be easy to get to. If they're buried in the engine as some are, I'm less interested in a chain. As noted before, they can and do go wrong. Chains are much more complex to design and build. I had a Nissan KA24E with a loud timing chain. Notorious on that engine. It's not an easy or a cheap fix. So I had to live with it. There's no free lunch. Both timing control systems have pros and cons. I was firmly entrenched in the "no belts, ever" camp until I actually bought a vehicle with one. I dreaded that timing belt job for over a year. Like with many challenges in life, the hardest part is actually resolving to do it. Once you're "in", it's just not that hard. I found the MDX's timing belt job so enjoyable, I did the Ridgeline's belt early, just because I wanted to. I used OEM parts on the Acura (about $400) and a very oft-recommended aftermarket kit on the Honda (about $200, Aisin brand). For 200 bucks and a Saturday morning's worth of work every 100,000 miles, I know I won't ever have a "stretched" or otherwise bad chain that I can't afford to fix. I personally think that's a pretty fair trade (one I might even prefer), but I respect others' diverging opinions on it...especially since I used to share them!

 

[Wolf359]

Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd

There's no free lunch. Both timing control systems have pros and cons. I was firmly entrenched in the "no belts, ever" camp until I actually bought a vehicle with one. I dreaded that timing belt job for over a year. Like with many challenges in life, the hardest part is actually resolving to do it. Once you're "in", it's just not that hard. I found the MDX's timing belt job so enjoyable, I did the Ridgeline's belt early, just because I wanted to. I used OEM parts on the Acura (about $400) and a very oft-recommended aftermarket kit on the Honda (about $200, Aisin brand). For 200 bucks and a Saturday morning's worth of work every 100,000 miles, I know I won't ever have a "stretched" or otherwise bad chain that I can't afford to fix. I personally think that's a pretty fair trade (one I might even prefer), but I respect others' diverging opinions on it...especially since I used to share them!

If you get the right engine, you never end up touching the chain. I had a Taurus with the original chain which was good to over 200k before I got rid of it. The Mercedes seems fine, no one really talks about replacing the chain and there are some pushing 200k.

 

[wtd]

Originally Posted By: clinebarger

Originally Posted By: wtd

I personally won't own a vehicle with a timing belt. I don't want to pay the crazy amount of money to get one replaced as a maintenance item and not all of the replacements are DIY friendly. After looking at the procedure for replacing the one on my daughter's 2004 Kia Rio as well as replacing the water pump, belt tensioner, and idler pulley, I decided it was too much hassle with not much room to work on it. I would rather have something with a chain. Wayne

Timing Chains & Tensioners fail also, More so with Tensioners. Cavaliers with the 2.2L are notorious for tensioner failures. As the Coyote engines age.....Guide, Tensioner, Main & Secondary Chain issues will crop up......They already have issues when performance camshafts & high rate valve springs are installed. Later LSX engines with Timing Chain Tensioners have problems with the spring in the tensioner falling into the pan & bending push rods as a result. 90% of Timing Belt jobs are very easy......The 90's GM DOHC 3.4L are the hardest Timing Belts I've done, Thank god most of those POS are gone! Funny thing about those engines is they had a conventional Timing Chain along with a Timing Belt. Easiest Timing Belt to change IMHO.....90's 2.2L Toyota's.

I realize that timing chains can fail but they usually don't for many many miles. I have also dealt with the 2.2L Cavalier tensioners many times but at least they are external and you don't have to go into the engine to replace it. I just would rather not have to have a vehicle that I have to have belts, tensioner and water pumps replaced every 60,000 miles. I know some supposedly can go to 100,000 miles before replacement. Wayne

 

[M1Accord]

This is why I will only buy cars with timing chain. After 200k miles, I am looking at at least $1500 in saving in maintanance. At 250k, that will be a time to decide if thestate still deem the vehicle road-worthy and a decision to change the chain or related parts, if needed, will come into play. With Honda, that figure is easily 300k miles. And I like to be able to use my OEM water pump until it stops working instead of prematurely replacing it, All in all, I can see myself saving 10-15% of the vehicle cost in term of lack of maintenance an I'll apply that to more frequent M1 Extended oil, better filter, and tranny fluid changes.

 

[artbuc]

Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd

There's no free lunch. Both timing control systems have pros and cons. I was firmly entrenched in the "no belts, ever" camp until I actually bought a vehicle with one. I dreaded that timing belt job for over a year. Like with many challenges in life, the hardest part is actually resolving to do it. Once you're "in", it's just not that hard. I found the MDX's timing belt job so enjoyable, I did the Ridgeline's belt early, just because I wanted to. I used OEM parts on the Acura (about $400) and a very oft-recommended aftermarket kit on the Honda (about $200, Aisin brand). For 200 bucks and a Saturday morning's worth of work every 100,000 miles, I know I won't ever have a "stretched" or otherwise bad chain that I can't afford to fix. I personally think that's a pretty fair trade (one I might even prefer), but I respect others' diverging opinions on it...especially since I used to share them!

Hokie, why didn't you use Aisin kit on your MDX?

 

[Vikas]

Quote:

there are some pushing 200k.

200K is the new 100K i.e. I expect that anything I purchase would *easily* last 200K.

 

[SeaJay]

Originally Posted By: Vikas

200K is the new 100K i.e. I expect that anything I purchase would *easily* last 200K.

That is a reasonable expectation if annual mileage driven is high (say pushing 20K per year). OTOH, if annual miles are low, say 8K to 10K per year it will take at least 20 years to hit the 200K mark. Age has a lot to do with some of the parts in the car (even more so in snow country with salted roads) To some of us, the expense of getting these things replaced at some point moves the description from easily hitting 200K to its darn expensive to keep it going that long and best to get something that is not as old, even it is a high mileage car driven by someone who puts a lot of miles on it annually.

 

[Eddie]

If manufactures are not confident enough to leave the timing belt change mileage off the must-do list, I'll take the whrrr of my chain over a belt. ED

 

[The Critic]

Originally Posted By: Vikas

Quote:

there are some pushing 200k.

200K is the new 100K i.e. I expect that anything I purchase would *easily* last 200K.

I wouldn't say that. 150k is already a stretch when you have owners who do not keep up with maintenance and repairs. Add the cosmetic issues that are typical by that point, and it is very easy to see why some cars are junked or sold at that point.

 

[artificialist]

Nobody in my family knew what a timing belt was, until it failed in 1994 in mom's 1985 Nissan Maxima. That was an interference engine, and we were told that it was going to cost $1600 to repair. Several things were already wrong with that car, so mom bought a new car.

 

[SHOZ]

The Hyundai Accents have been using timing belts forever and still many people don't know about them. You will find the threads where they went loose, usually strip out at the crank pulley, and bend the valves. At least Rock Auto has rebuilt heads now to cut down the cost. My '97 Ford Taurus SHO had a timing chain, but the cam sprockets would break loose and fubar the motor. Most went to welding the cam sprockets to the cam.