TIME magazine article on Toyota and GM

[buster]

If anyone gets the chance, check out the article "The New Dude on the Road". Ever since GM has fallen, Toyota has gained. They did mention how Toyota could be repeating the same mistakes as the big 3 and that quality has dropped. They said the Camry is no longer #1 in quality (8th?). The Japanese Toyota method of production isn't being used as much. <b>If Toyota doesn't realize that Quality is the main reason people buy their cars, and neglect that, they will be the next GM.</b> Toyota's don't perform better or look better then most cars. They tend to be very conservative. The minute they loose the quality, they loose the race. Thats my opinion of course.

 

[2003TRD]

I agree wholeheartedly, The styling of Toyota is bland, the performance is mediocre the build quality is why I have purchased/Leased 5 toyotas in past 7 years. I think that when Toyota and Honda moved plants from Japan to other places, or maybe the pressure of profit margins from the stock holders brought about the use of cheaper materials, that the recent quality has declined, My MR2 Spyder had engine problems beyond belief, my Tacoma has a squeaky dash isssue and a non-retracting driver seat belt problem (they say its normal that you have to manually untwist the seat belt for it to retract-Not on any other Car/truck I have owned) So I agree that if the quality gets any worse I would not buy again, my wifes focus has been rock solid since day one, but I guess it takes awhile for Ford to turn around its reputation of the 80s-90s.

 

[JohnBrowning]

I agree! Toyota's quality has been going down compared to past years. The gap between them and other companys has been closeing! Toyota's long term quality and durability are the reson I buy them when I can! If Toyota loses that then why buy a Toyota!

 

[SSDude]

It seems that we all agree so far. I believe that Toyota has had 1.1 problem per can and GM has had 1.3. I have mentioned this before. However, most people in California still believe that there is a quality gap.

 

[pscholte]

How many times have you seen it happen? Remember Ozark and Piedmont Airlines and the kudos they used to receive and then they got bought by bigger carriers and dissolved into the mediocrity that bigness and success sometimes generate? How about Volvo and Ford, Saab and GM. Do you still consider them the same distinctive automobiles they used to be? I read a book (cannot remember the title) that described how the work ethic formerly identified with the Japanese was now characteristic of the Koreans. With success and wealth come decline. Look at our own history. Except in very rare instances, mankind cannot be trusted with success and the track record of our species is descent not ascent. It's a shame, but it is also a fact. [ April 24, 2005, 07:03 PM: Message edited by: pscholte ]

 

[DockHoliday]

quote:

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Originally posted by pscholte: With success and wealth come decline. Look at our own history. Except in very rare instances, mankind cannot be trusted with success and the track record of our species is descent not ascent.

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I believe that is called the "hedonistic principle".

 

[buster]

quote:

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With success and wealth come decline. Look at our own history. Except in very rare instances, mankind cannot be trusted with success and the track record of our species is descent not ascent. It's a shame, but it is also a fact

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Well what ever priciple, pscholte hit the nail on the head. Couldn't agree more. It's a shame too because I always liked the fact that Toyota was a smaller company that focused on quality only. I bought my Corolla because I knew that I would need 200k trouble free miles out of it, which it gave me (In 3.5 years ). Amazingly built little car. Toyota will hit a brick wall the minute they loose focus on quality.

 

[buster]

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With more factories around the world, Toyota has had to abandon its distinctive one-on-one training methods, prompting questions about whether the company can maintain its vaunted production standards. In the old days, Japanese manufacturing gurus schooled in the legendary Toyota production system would move overseas and practically live in a new plant for a few years. Classroom training is now the rule. And for the first time, Toyota's U

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At the same time, Toyota is losing ground in the vehicle-reliability race. Hyundai last year nudged past Toyota (excluding Lexus) in J.D. Power & Associates' initial-quality survey. GM has narrowed the gap with models like the Buick Century. Even the indomitable Camry has slipped, dropping from first place in 2000 to eighth in 2004, as consumers report fewer problems with competing models. (Camry complaints aren't appreciably higher.)

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TIME article

 

[pbm]

My 01' Accord has been trouble free with the exception of a stuck caliper when I did the front brakes at approx. 36K. (the stuck caliper caused the pads to wear out on that side). Also the A/T is a bit flaky until warmed up. My 02' Century has been completely trouble free and has about 12k more miles than the Honda. I believe that Hondas quality has slipped since my brothers 86 ' and 91' Accords. Buicks quality seems to have improved. I guess I agree with the TIME article.

 

[ruking77]

..."Toyota doesn't realize that Quality is the main reason people buy their cars, and neglect that, they will be the next GM. "... I would agree from a intellectual point of view. However, when they do surpass GM (in many other measures they have been light years ahead of GM for a very long time) , they will have a number of years (my guess 10-15 years) of the so called "dominant" position. But history indicates that could be 30 years or longer. They more likely could go belly up and threaten bankruptcy (ala KMart). If they do go belly up (without reorganization plans) I think our government would step in (with bail out plans; like Chrysler) with national security as part of the issue. Also GM during that time, if it does not go even more steadily downhill will have to at least battle back to or UP to the place that Toyota would slip toward. The truth is there is no one to really give Toyota a run for their money once they get into the so called "dominant position. I think basically you are seeing Toyota "half stepping" now. I mean really what are you doing to do:? buy a GM if you have been buying Toyotas? On the other side: why would you not buy a lesser quality Toyota (than before) when the GM products you have been buying are even worse? Also, it is no secret there is too much product chasing too few buyers. In GM's case, there are way too much NON PROFITABLE products doing the chasing also. GM has moved to adjust but it has only recently took one of its brands off the market. (Oldsmobile) Also this is a tad bit oxymoronic in that the passenger vehicle fleet is THE highest that it has been! [ April 24, 2005, 09:04 PM: Message edited by: ruking77 ]

 

[rjundi]

This all being said forget about "quality" Toyota's, GM's,Ford's and Honda's all have problems in certain cases. Buy what suits your needs, tastes and desires......I bought my first and last "quality" car , a new 1995 Honda Civic that was sold problem free (maybe bad head gasket) at 226k miles. However it was boring and uncomfortable. It had no charisma, character basically an appliance. I much preferred my previous VW Jetta GLI 16V (had soul) and my current Subaru WRX. I have no idea if the Subaru is reliable or not but I love it and love driving it. That is what counts, I could care less what everyone else thinks.

 

[buster]

I think it's also important to distinguish 90 day quality (J.D. Powers) from Long Term quality (5 years +). If wear metals in an oil analysis mean anything, Toyota is doing just fine.

 

[wavinwayne]

Comfort is the enemy of achievement.

 

[brianl703]

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Originally posted by ruking77: If they do go belly up (without reorganization plans) I think our government would step in (with bail out plans; like Chrysler) with national security as part of the issue.

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Are you saying that the US Government would bail out Toyota? Why not the Japanese government?