Three Month Review of My 2013 Passat TDI SE

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: Maximus1966
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: Maximus1966
With the 3K diesel option and the higher price of fuel, have you figured your break even point?


No time flat at a 20 mpg practical delta. Diesel isn't 50%+ more expensive. It's practically the same price around here.


No time flat = 3 years, 4 months ????

NJ average prices (AAA): Regular $3.564 Diesel: $3.946

I know the "new math" was introduced in the '60s, but number crunching on this site leaves a lot to be desired.


OK, lets make this real easy for you... 60+% higher fuel economy for 10% higher (less realistically) fuel cost.

3 years isnt a long time at all in terms of auto ownership. The average car age is what, over 10 years now?

So you drove in my neighborhood and looked at fuel prices? Have you considered that CC prices on gas are $0.10 higher than published while diesel is same price cash and credit.

Two of the stations I frequent are priced this way:

RUG: $3.189 (cash), $3.289 (credit)
Diesel: $3.489 cash and credit

RUG: $3.239 (cash), $3.339 (credit)
Diesel: $3.539 cash and credit

The local truckstops do have HIGH diesel prices compared to gas ($3.19 RUG cash and credit, $3.97 diesel), but a passat isnt a truck, so if I was buying a passat and considering fuel costs and breakeven, why would I even put that into consdieration? Unless you have an agenda to fight at all costs, like you do.

Dont go disparaging math skills when you have no clue what the local situation is and youre spitting some number that you pull online. If your ability to discuss a topic is so weak that you have to play games like that to suit your agenda, then just keep quiet.

...And wait until low sulfur gasoline hits here. If you knew anything, you would know what is driving commodity cost deltas with diesel... and what it means to application to gasoline.

 

[adamrc]

Great review! Our family loves VW TDIs. We've owned seven in our family over the years. No, they aren't perfect but no car really is. The TDI returns great fuel mileage, high torque, and they are fun to drive. I'm glad to see more diesels offered in passenger cars in the USA.

 

[Maximus1966]

Can you elaborate? I'm considering going to back to a European car, mostly because these ultra-reliable Asian cars are so appliance-like and a little boring. I have fond memories from my BMW days.

 

[Quattro Pete]

To me, a big part of the "fun to drive" factor is the manual trans. The good thing is that VW offers it on the Passat TDI (base trim version). The bad thing is that this TDI engine isn't the greatest match for a manual 6-speed trans if you drive in the city. You'll be rowing a lot in order to stay in low RPMs, to the point where it just becomes excessive and mundane. I've experienced it recently in our family's A4 with the same engine. I thought I'd never say it, but I feel like this car would have been better mated to auto trans, alas, that takes away the fun.

If I wanted a fun to drive VW, I'd get a GTI with a manual trans.
Still very practical, but of course the MPG isn't as good as a TDI.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
The bad thing is that this TDI engine isn't the greatest match for a manual 6-speed trans if you drive in the city. You'll be rowing a lot in order to stay in low RPMs, to the point where it just becomes excessive and mundane.


My brother has an MT golf TDI (same engine, right?) in MT form and drives regularly in DC traffic. He doesnt really have complaints. Torque is sufficient to be able to drive it without doing that.

In general, well chosen ratios are NOT a chore to drive in city traffic. Been doing it for years in my BMW. Cant say for certain that the ratios are absolute best in the Golf/Passat, but no complaints from a regular DC traffic driver.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: NateDN10
Originally Posted By: Maximus1966
With the 3K diesel option and the higher price of fuel, have you figured your break even point?

This is easy enough to figure out.
They've had the car for 4 months and driven 7000 miles. If this is typical, they'd drive 21,000 miles a year. I just filled up on Sunday for 3.799/gal for regular unleaded. Diesel is 4.199/gal. Assume the 2.5L gasser would get 30 mpg as compared to the stated 50.5 mpg.

21,000 * ($3.799/gal / 30mpg) = $2659/yr for gas
21,000 * ($4.199/gal / 50mpg) = $1764/yr for diesel

The delta is $896/yr, so it'd take 3 years and 4 months to break even. By that point the car would have 70,300 miles.

This assumes, of course, that the prices of gas and diesel don't change.


Quoted for emphasis.

How many people on here trade their cars before 3 years, 4 months or 70,300 miles to make this not worthwhile???

Just wondering.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
My brother has an MT golf TDI (same engine, right?) in MT form and drives regularly in DC traffic. He doesnt really have complaints. Torque is sufficient to be able to drive it without doing that.

You don't have to, but if you want to get the best MPG, you'll be wanting to upshift quickly. Besides, this engine just does not sound that great at higher rpms.

Maybe the ratios in that A4 were different, not well chosen.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
My brother has an MT golf TDI (same engine, right?) in MT form and drives regularly in DC traffic. He doesnt really have complaints. Torque is sufficient to be able to drive it without doing that.

You don't have to, but if you want to get the best MPG, you'll be wanting to upshift quickly. Besides, this engine just does not sound that great at higher rpms.

Maybe the ratios in that A4 were different, not well chosen.


For sure about upshifting. My brother keeps his RPMs really low. Often below 1500!

 

[IndyIan]

Also if you corner brisky you can save a down and up shift at each corner too. The Focus is the first car I've had with a dual mass flywheel so even it pulls smoothly from 1500rpm so you can stay in 3rd for a typical intersection corner, rev it a bit and go to 5th around 40mph. Fast and efficient!
I thought about a Jetta or Passat TDI wagon of the same vintage as the Focus but they almost cost twice as much with equal condition and mileage. So I can attest to their resale value.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: IndyIan
Also if you corner brisky you can save a down and up shift at each corner too. The Focus is the first car I've had with a dual mass flywheel so even it pulls smoothly from 1500rpm so you can stay in 3rd for a typical intersection corner, rev it a bit and go to 5th around 40mph. Fast and efficient!
I thought about a Jetta or Passat TDI wagon of the same vintage as the Focus but they almost cost twice as much with equal condition and mileage. So I can attest to their resale value.


My 318i has a dual mass flywheel. People dump them because they want faster revving for speed... But I agree 100%, the design really allows for smooth and efficient driving, even around town and in traffic.

 

[Vikas]

Quote:
CC prices on gas are $0.10 higher than published while diesel is same price cash and credit.
I have never noticed that in my neighborhood. I thought station's decision to apply surcharge was across the board. Were you talking about different gas stations or the same? What would be the rationale for the station to have credit card surcharge on gas but not on diesel?

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: Vikas
Quote:
CC prices on gas are $0.10 higher than published while diesel is same price cash and credit.
I have never noticed that in my neighborhood. I thought station's decision to apply surcharge was across the board. Were you talking about different gas stations or the same? What would be the rationale for the station to have credit card surcharge on gas but not on diesel?


Couldnt say but that is definitely how it is here at all stations.

very few anymore (only shell and a few no names, fewer all the time) have cash and credit, same price on gas. All have diesel same price cahs and credit.

May well be because diesel pumps are older and dont have the same integrated credit card controls and whatnot. Regardless, it is how it is done around here for every station I come upon besides truckstops.

Probably the capital cost of changing the pumps isnt enough to be recouped by cc fees. Plenty of stations have gone for years with cash and cc same price by adjusting their pricing structure. Nothing says they dont still do that with diesel.

Regardless, makes diesel a better deal, and even if it were $0.30 different, it is still less than 10% difference in price from RUG for a ~60% increase in MPGs...

 

[MCompact]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2

In general, well chosen ratios are NOT a chore to drive in city traffic. Been doing it for years in my BMW. Cant say for certain that the ratios are absolute best in the Golf/Passat, but no complaints from a regular DC traffic driver.


I agree, the three cars I drive the most are all manuals- I never choose one of the slushboxes based on anticipated traffic conditions.

 

[friendly_jacek]

Originally Posted By: Boomer


Conclusion:

If this car shows long term durability, I will probably not go back to a gasoline powered car. That decision will also depend on the quality of service I receive from the dealer. So far, no issues there at all, however. I would be happy to answer any questions you might have.


I hope you keep ALL of your fuel receipts in case of problems:

Quote:
VW said it told dealerships that "fuel system damage incurred by use of fuel not complying to ASTM-D-975 Grade 2 S15 (B5 or less biodiesel content) standards will not be covered under warranty."


http://jalopnik.com/5968228/are-fuel-pump-failures-sidelining-volkswagens-diesel-engines

I'm hearing there are some states where B5 or below is not even available in the first place.

 

[L_Sludger]

Originally Posted By: BTLew81
Originally Posted By: L_Sludger
Originally Posted By: BTLew81
Originally Posted By: dsmith41
Stay tuned for the VW check engine light. Glad you love the car. My dad has a diesel Jetta and he gets great mileage too.


What? I'm on my third TDI since 06 and I have to say they have been very trouble free. ::knocks on wood::
LOL. Okay, so you've been trading in your VWs from new every three years, right? So your TDIs have been maximum 3 years old at trade-in. If they're not trouble-free within that brand-new period, then VW would lose all business. It's the people who own the cars at 14 years and 250k miles who really get to determine whether a car has been trouble-free or not. We live in different times from the 50s.


Well, my 09 had about 140k on it when I sold it. It was a warrior and I was not easy on it at all. It never missed a beat. I get your point, but I put A LOT of miles on it in a short period of time. Honestly, we have a lot of VW cars in our family and have been VERY happy with them. Never a major repair in hundreds of thousands of miles. Maybe we are lucky...I just think some need to really talk to some owners before you make a blanket statement.


I'm speaking as a former VW owner. I had a Jetta, and did a considerable amount of work on it. I understand your point, but you are still coming from the new-car perspective. A car's value is more than what it can do within the warranty period. Its value lies in what it does in the decade(s) beyond which warranty coverage ends.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: friendly_jacek

I hope you keep ALL of your fuel receipts in case of problems:

Quote:
VW said it told dealerships that "fuel system damage incurred by use of fuel not complying to ASTM-D-975 Grade 2 S15 (B5 or less biodiesel content) standards will not be covered under warranty."


http://jalopnik.com/5968228/are-fuel-pump-failures-sidelining-volkswagens-diesel-engines

I'm hearing there are some states where B5 or below is not even available in the first place.


Last time I drove cross country, I wanted some B20 for cleaning purposes. Used the biodiesel sites and whatnot, and it was next to impossible to find, even in the plains and midwest.

B5 wasnt much easier to find.

 

[Boomer]

I do keep all fuel receipts and make copies. here in PA, state law mandates 2% biodiesel content so we don't have that mess they have in Illinois. Apparewntly, quite a number of fuel pump failures seem to relate to the wrong fuel being put in (RUG vs diesel). Sounds wierd? Around here, the diesel pumps are green but then in some stations, the RUG pumps are green so I can see someone not paying attention could really hit the wrong pump.It only takes about a pint of RUG in the tank to kiss the pump goodbye.

 

[friendly_jacek]

Originally Posted By: Boomer
I do keep all fuel receipts and make copies. here in PA, state law mandates 2% biodiesel content so we don't have that mess they have in Illinois. Apparewntly, quite a number of fuel pump failures seem to relate to the wrong fuel being put in (RUG vs diesel). Sounds wierd? Around here, the diesel pumps are green but then in some stations, the RUG pumps are green so I can see someone not paying attention could really hit the wrong pump.It only takes about a pint of RUG in the tank to kiss the pump goodbye.


I see you did your homework well.
Good luck with your new ride.
I remember the old good times when you would put some gas in diesel on cold days winter time. The old school mechanical pumps didn't mind much.
On the other hand, my brother in law has currently a huge and lucrative business fixing VW turbos, pumps, and injectors in Europe. Predictable to fail about 200,000 miles (300,000 km).

 

[supton]

Meh. Turbo fails at 200k. I had mine replaced at 249k, last year, it cost I think $1200 (plus another few hundred on a tune). That's like 4 payments *BUT* car had been paid off for at least 4 years. I should be able to eek out a couple more years if I really wanted to. IMO, fuel savings has paid for my repair costs, but like any other vehicle, cost/mile is still dominated by depreciation, if you are buying new.

 

[Philth]

FYI - Illinois TDI owners were sent a letter stating that usage of biodiesel of up tp B20 would be covered under warranty. Because of the tax incentives this corrupt state provides the gas stations, the standard around here is B11.

I'm one of those owners.