Three Mistakes We Made in China and Three Things We’ll Get Right in Mexico

[Owen Lucas]

By 2030/35 China will be in serious peril due to their lack of working aged population to fund the massive older generation(s). The one child policy was ended far to late to prop up the financial needs of their society as it was in previous decades.

China's focus on having boys (to become soldiers) vs girls also led to a lot of female abortions resulting in a heavily male tilted population.

IIRC, China will require the population of 3 Indonesia's worth of women to match all of the single men resulting in order to sustain their birth rate.

There is an underground industry where women / girls are kidnapped from Vietnam and within China for wealthier men. Apparently the kidnapping rate is like 1 every hour within mainland China, don't quote me on that but there are many documentaries on the subject.

There are going to be a lot of frustrated men in China and that's going to lead to revolution.

 

[alarmguy]

I'll take issue with the "value" statement. Most consumer are inherently blind to what "value" is, they shop based on price. If you have to buy 3x crappy microwaves for example, over a few years, vs just spending more for better quality one that will last 20 years, which is the better value? But we know which direction consumers go.

The same applies to most everything including tires, tools, wheels, cables, charge cubes, appliances...etc.

One of the more sombre stories of the decline this drives was the appearance of "Professional Products" brand car parts, which blatantly ripped off the IP of brands like Holley, Edelbrock...etc. Pro Products was an offshore broker, operating in the US, and importing these clones from China, and it was the Chinese companies violating the IP rights, so there was no recourse.

It didn't take long for there to be a massive decline in the quality of the Edelbrock castings, ending up the same as the Chinese ones. They had clearly off-shored their manufacturing to try and keep margins up. There was a surge in folks looking for good used products at that point.

I'd also argue that there still is a market for quality, but you have to know your customer base, which isn't your average Walmart shopper. Brands like Miele, Bryston, McIntosh, Viking...etc. come to mind.

We may not disagree as much as you think.
Im not most consumers and I understand value, true, much of the public doesnt.
You are not like most consumers either and understand the value of the high end brands you mention, most of the public would ask Bryston? McIntosh? what's that a new type of vacuum cleaner?
You're a different income level than the median and much more technically knowledgeable over the general population by light years in many cases.

By value I would suggest, when people see a Toyota they think value is the best example I can come up with off the top of my head, even though Toyota is now a pricey car, they got their reputation from low to lower pricing a long time ago with incredible reliability = value.
Even some audio brands of years past from Asia got a reputation of value compared to the North American Continent.

I agree now, most of the public is blind to value on the median income scale. It's about price. (it's actually why I predicated what is happening to Tesla last spring, taking place right now) GM and the rest of the world will be turning out EVs like bubble gum at lower prices.

I know value and why I have a $1,500 Sony 65 inch TV instead of a $650 set. I have entry level Paradigm speakers from decades ago still perform flawlessly. I had entry level Boston acoustic speakers before that and mid level Mission in-between. Heck even my newer Mac mini has Boston Computer speakers from god knows they are so old now that I decided to throw them away when we moved because they are old and actually took them out of the garbage and hooked them back up because I dont know how or what I would replace them with. I dont know what has come of that company anymore.

Let's not even get into appliances, we are actually shopping for new washer, dryer, refrigerator for when our new house is complete and its like a minefield of not knowing what will be reliable anymore.

 

[OVERKILL]

We may not disagree as much as you think.
Im not most consumers and I understand value, true, much of the public doesnt.
You are not like most consumers either and understand the value of the high end brands you mention, most of the public would ask Bryston? McIntosh? what's that a new type of vacuum cleaner?
You're a different income level than the median and much more technically knowledgeable over the general population by light years in many cases.

By value I would suggest, when people see a Toyota they think value is the best example I can come up with off the top of my head, even though Toyota is now a pricey car, they got their reputation from low to lower pricing a long time ago with incredible reliability = value.
Even some audio brands of years past from Asia got a reputation of value compared to the North American Continent.

I agree now, most of the public is blind to value on the median income scale. It's about price. (it's actually why I predicated what is happening to Tesla last spring, taking place right now) GM and the rest of the world will be turning out EVs like bubble gum at lower prices.

I know value and why I have a $1,500 Sony 65 inch TV instead of a $650 set. I have entry level Paradigm speakers from decades ago still perform flawlessly. I had entry level Boston acoustic speakers before that and mid level Mission in-between. Heck even my newer Mac mini has Boston Computer speakers from god knows they are so old now that I decided to throw them away when we moved because they are old and actually took them out of the garbage and hooked them back up because I dont know how or what I would replace them with. I dont know what has come of that company anymore.

Let's not even get into appliances, we are actually shopping for new washer, dryer, refrigerator for when our new house is complete and its like a minefield of not knowing what will be reliable anymore.

Sounds like we are on the same page, I'm saying that Joe Average consumer is who doesn't understand "value". These are your average "Walmart shopper" who then bitterly complains about the offshoring of goods and decline in quality while seemingly oblivious to the fact that they are supporting that practice with their buying habits.

 

[k1xv]

China has over one billion consumers with a rising standard of living. Capitalists want access to that market to sell things. GM, Tesla, Apple, etc. They also want access to lower cost labor. As a result, they were willing to sell their souls to access the market and the labor.

And you get things like LeBron James discouraging anyone in the NBA from criticizing China's civil rights shortcomings, because LeBron wants to sell his merchandise there.

Vladimir Lenin is quoted as saying "If we announced that we are going to hang all Capitalists, they would come to sell us the rope.".

Yes, if China wanted to kill American manufacturing capability, our Capitalists would go to China to build the factories, and share the technology to run them.

 

[JeffKeryk]

I'll take issue with the "value" statement. Most consumer are inherently blind to what "value" is, they shop based on price. If you have to buy 3x crappy microwaves for example, over a few years, vs just spending more for better quality one that will last 20 years, which is the better value? But we know which direction consumers go.

The same applies to most everything including tires, tools, wheels, cables, charge cubes, appliances...etc.

One of the more sombre stories of the decline this drives was the appearance of "Professional Products" brand car parts, which blatantly ripped off the IP of brands like Holley, Edelbrock...etc. Pro Products was an offshore broker, operating in the US, and importing these clones from China, and it was the Chinese companies violating the IP rights, so there was no recourse.

It didn't take long for there to be a massive decline in the quality of the Edelbrock castings, ending up the same as the Chinese ones. They had clearly off-shored their manufacturing to try and keep margins up. There was a surge in folks looking for good used products at that point.

I'd also argue that there still is a market for quality, but you have to know your customer base, which isn't your average Walmart shopper. Brands like Miele, Bryston, McIntosh, Viking...etc. come to mind.

@OVERKILL I would call your Professional Products example another case of Product Life Cycle. Products change and ultimately get to end of life for many reasons. Leadership in a given market comes with a target on its back. And there is no fair in business.

Regarding the legendary brands you mentioned, they are priced out of reach for the general public. Heck, a Bryston Monoblock and Ohm speakers setup deserves its own listening room; who has the scratch for that? I put together a little Creek integrated and Monitor Audio speakers that reproduces the human voice better than, well that's opinion.

 

[OVERKILL]

@OVERKILL I would call your Professional Products example another case of Product Life Cycle. Products change and ultimately get to end of life for many reasons. Leadership in a given market comes with a target on its back. And there is no fair in business.

When dealing with China, who is shameless about ripping off IP, you are absolutely correct on that.

Regarding the legendary brands you mentioned, they are priced out of reach for the general public. Heck, a Bryston Monoblock and Ohm speakers setup deserves its own listening room; who has the scratch for that? I put together a little Creek integrated and Monitor Audio speakers that reproduces the human voice better than, well that's opinion.

Some of them, sure (mostly the stereo equipment), but some of this stuff isn't insane.

Here's a Viking microwave:

Viking VMOS501SS Professional Series 2.0 Cu. Ft. Capacity | Build.com

Save on the Viking VMOS501SS from Build.com. Low Prices + Fast & Free Shipping on Most Orders. Find reviews, expert advice, manuals, specs & more.

www.build.com

Yeah, it's more expensive than the Walmart special, but, per my example, if it lasts 20 years and the Walmart ones don't, which ends up being the better value?

 

[JeffKeryk]

When dealing with China, who is shameless about ripping off IP, you are absolutely correct on that.

Some of them, sure (mostly the stereo equipment), but some of this stuff isn't insane.

Here's a Viking microwave:

Viking VMOS501SS Professional Series 2.0 Cu. Ft. Capacity | Build.com

Save on the Viking VMOS501SS from Build.com. Low Prices + Fast & Free Shipping on Most Orders. Find reviews, expert advice, manuals, specs & more.

www.build.com

Yeah, it's more expensive than the Walmart special, but, per my example, if it lasts 20 years and the Walmart ones don't, which ends up being the better value?

It ain't just China. At least in high tech. For every C level exec, there are a bunch more who will go to any length... Success comes with a target on its back.

There is another problem with "quality", or at least with percieved quality. A friend bought an expensive Bosch dishwasher; it had nothing but problems. Replaced it with a far cheaper brand, that was easily 10 years ago.
Similarly, I bought an expensive LG fridge; dang thing died. I wanted to throw that POS off the GG Bridge. Bought an entry level KitchenAid.

Sometimes we opt for "quality" and end up being short changed. Once bitten twice shy, as they say.
Now Walmart stuff and Harbor Freight stuff, for the most part, drive me crazy. I have never been sorry I bought a quality tool.

I do like your, "but some of this stuff isn't insane." Quality matters, especially if one can find it within one's price point. Quality matters.

 

[Vil_Riker]

Here's a Viking microwave:

Viking VMOS501SS Professional Series 2.0 Cu. Ft. Capacity | Build.com

Save on the Viking VMOS501SS from Build.com. Low Prices + Fast & Free Shipping on Most Orders. Find reviews, expert advice, manuals, specs & more.

www.build.com

Yeah, it's more expensive than the Walmart special, but, per my example, if it lasts 20 years and the Walmart ones don't, which ends up being the better value?

I wouldn't buy an appliance that is not made in China or Korea. The tariffs make them more expensive but they are still a better value.

 

[PimTac]

I wouldn't buy an appliance that is not made in China or Korea. The tariffs make them more expensive but they are still a better value.

I’ve had good luck with appliances made in Thailand.