Tommy, the first thing to do is decide what the max accepable tranmission fluid tempurature is. 2nd is to install a temp gauge and see if there is a problem.
If there is problem, then install a cooler.
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Thoughts on Transmission Coolers>?
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If there is problem, then install a cooler.
When driving in the mountains out west this summer my tranny temps got up to 240F with two coolers and the radiator heat exchange disconnected. Radiator coolant was running about 220F so I guess that would have cooled it down a bit. The TC was not locked up most of the time though.
IMHO heat is your worst enemy in an ATX tranny. I also use Amsoil ATX fluid.
IMHO heat is your worst enemy in an ATX tranny. I also use Amsoil ATX fluid.
On my '97 Taurus SHO that is raced I use two aux coolers in series and have eliminated the radiator tranny cooler. I do not do much cold weather driving so over cooling is not an issue.
The best hose to get is hydraulic hose. It has a steel mesh reinforcement that will not allow any kinking to happen.
The best hose to get is hydraulic hose. It has a steel mesh reinforcement that will not allow any kinking to happen.
SHOZ,
The coolant in the heads of your engine were 220°. The coolant coming out of your radiator is somewhat cooler in order to maintain that temperature. The transmission cooler is inside the lower (cooler) tank of the radiator.
If your ATF thermometer was in the line to the cooler you get a very different reading than if you put in into the sump. The sump temperature is more accurate for gauging fluid condition...heat damage is a result of the combination of temperature and time at that temperature. A temperature sensor in the return line from the coolers is an easy installation and usually within about 5° of the sump temperature.
Ken
The coolant in the heads of your engine were 220°. The coolant coming out of your radiator is somewhat cooler in order to maintain that temperature. The transmission cooler is inside the lower (cooler) tank of the radiator.
If your ATF thermometer was in the line to the cooler you get a very different reading than if you put in into the sump. The sump temperature is more accurate for gauging fluid condition...heat damage is a result of the combination of temperature and time at that temperature. A temperature sensor in the return line from the coolers is an easy installation and usually within about 5° of the sump temperature.
Ken
I will give you a little fact. Drove my corolla with 4 people + some stuff in hot summer in florida at 85 mph. I measured AT temp with handheld IR at a rest area, it was 220+ F. It was 200 F with 75 mph. Now, Toyota states that the fluid is good for life, sure. I will put a cooler in it as soon as the warranty expires.quote:
Originally posted by Tommy:
Racing, towing, sure......but do all cars really require an extra tranny cooler? How much power is being transmitted through the torque/transmission when cruising down the highway? How often (and for how long) does your transmission see the maximum horsepower of the engine? I would bet that for most passenger vehicles, there would be more to gain from extra filtration than from coolers. Lets face it, filters in the sump (suction side filters) have to be coarse by nature, some vehicles use only a screen here. Most vehicles really have NO transmission filtration in my books!
I personally would not be without one on any automatic transmission.
A trans was ruined on my STS, as the fluid became VERY hot for extended driving at 155mph. The 4th (&reverse) band burned, and the fluid was extremely cooked. A friend's Camaro SS is on its 3rd trans in 10,000 miles, as the fluid heated up during racing and caused the failures. It was commented how both cars should have been fine, IF they had auxilliary ATF coolers. The kicker: so we both purchased B&M coolers, but were told if installed warranties will be void. OK, fine so they keep going back for trans work, lol. In my opinion, an extra trans cooler is a smart idea-a must for a hard working trans.
I personally will not have an auto tranny without (1) extra cooler and (2) ATF temp gauge.
I like to use the biggest one that will fit my particular location.
I have never found "over cooling" to be a problem. I used Mobil1 Syn Trans fluid and the largest cooler I can stuff in the front. I've never had any shifting or longevity issues on 4 different cars with 500k miles combined......My explorer trans cooling is now set up like this:quote:
Originally posted by olympic:
The only caveat here is if you live in an area tha has really cold winters. In this situation you must either install a winter front on the car or cover up the majority of the cooler to prevent over-cooling the ATF.
Trans>>>>Factory in radiator cooler>>>>>Factory stacked plate external cooler(tow package)>>>>Perma-Cool Tube/Fin cooler>>>Trans.
No issues, and it was zero outside last week.....
The instructions for my B&M 28 kgvw cooler recommend that it be installed after the radiator."This method provides maximum cooling by returning the coolest oil directly to the transmission".It also goes on to state that this installation method "complies with most new car warranties".My Chevy service manual shows a minimum ATF operating temp of 69.8 degrees.Maximum operating temp is 219.2 degrees.The service manual states that the PCM will reprogram the amount of torque converter slip and shift firmness according to the trans oil temp.
My recommendation is to install as large an auxiliary transmission cooler that will fit in front of the radiator. This is a good idea no matter what the duty of the vehicle is. It becomes essential in towing, extended driving, commercial duties unless you really like your transmission mechanic and enjoy the visits.
Anecdotal evidence at our shop shows factory or properly installed auxiliary coolers extend the life of most failure prone transmissions/transaxles at twice the normal service life mileage.
Specifically, a typical mid 90s Ford "Exploder" A4LD/4R series w/ factory installed cooler may survive to 180,000 miles before a major repair, whereas w/o any supplemental cooling, you would be doing great to make it to 100,000 miles.
However, there are a ton of other factors involved, specific reliability of transmission/transaxles, fluid service intervals, driving styles, but additional cooling WILL ALWAYS extend the service life of the unit.
In certain cold climates, fluid gelling at startup can cause trouble, however most modern units have a bypass method to get the fluid up to a working temperature. Long's stacked plate coolers use a temperature sensitive bypass/orifice.
The ideal situation is use the engine coolant to warm the fluid to a working temperature (190>WT>150 degrees F) and then use an auxiliary cooler AFTER to continue to maintain that working temp. Fluid temperatures getting past 200 degrees F is bad news and cuts down service life.
It's doubtful overcooling would ever be a issue if the fluid is routed though some sort of heat exchange with the engine coolant.
Install a cooler in series AFTER the radiator. It's always a good idea.
DH
Anecdotal evidence at our shop shows factory or properly installed auxiliary coolers extend the life of most failure prone transmissions/transaxles at twice the normal service life mileage.
Specifically, a typical mid 90s Ford "Exploder" A4LD/4R series w/ factory installed cooler may survive to 180,000 miles before a major repair, whereas w/o any supplemental cooling, you would be doing great to make it to 100,000 miles.
However, there are a ton of other factors involved, specific reliability of transmission/transaxles, fluid service intervals, driving styles, but additional cooling WILL ALWAYS extend the service life of the unit.
In certain cold climates, fluid gelling at startup can cause trouble, however most modern units have a bypass method to get the fluid up to a working temperature. Long's stacked plate coolers use a temperature sensitive bypass/orifice.
The ideal situation is use the engine coolant to warm the fluid to a working temperature (190>WT>150 degrees F) and then use an auxiliary cooler AFTER to continue to maintain that working temp. Fluid temperatures getting past 200 degrees F is bad news and cuts down service life.
It's doubtful overcooling would ever be a issue if the fluid is routed though some sort of heat exchange with the engine coolant.
Install a cooler in series AFTER the radiator. It's always a good idea.
DH
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