Thoughts on going to 5w20 this winter in my Vibe

[jrustles]

Originally Posted By: kschachn
Explain why that would be bad.

Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
They should come out with a 0W-0. People aren't gonna be happy until oil has no viscosity at all.


We already have a readily available fluid with virtually no viscosity; that would be air.

Are you asking why using air or any other gas as a lubricant would be bad?

Perhaps gasses are too viscous. A vacuum truly has no viscosity, I think a perfect hermetically sealed engine in a vacuum state would probably be the ultimate lube

 

[Vibe_2007]

I bought one for the Vibe and a factory one for the Mazda 2. Going to be great not having to keep slapping on an oil pan heater like last winter. What a pain that was. Arrggh.

[/quote]
Nah. The thermostat will keep the coolant in the head, at the thermostat location, at a relatively constant temperature. Anyone who has seen the mayonnaise-like gunk under their oil cap in the winter knows that their oil isn't getting hot enough. -20° air blowing past the oil pan guarantees that.

Vibe, use the 0W-20 or 5W-20 oil. It'll work great. If you don't like it, it doesn't cost much to drain & replace the oil--keep the filter.

You, or your Mrs., will like the block heater. She'll get cabin heat in a very short drive, windows clear, better gas mileage at the beginning of the trip due to the quicker warm up, and cleaner exhaust. [/quote]

 

[Nickdfresh]

Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
They should come out with a 0W-0. People aren't gonna be happy until oil has no viscosity at all.


Do you have anything to offer threads other than strawman trolling and posting blatantly ignorant information?

 

[bubbatime]

Originally Posted By: Vibe_2007
The commute is only 2 miles of city streets and 5 miles of highway @ 65mph. Total of 7 miles. Commute takes only 15 minutes from door to door.


Confirms my suspicions that the oil will definately never heat to full operating temp. 0W20 will be perfect for your ride.

 

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Explain why that would be bad.


Go ahead and try to lubricate something without viscosity..........I dare ya.




I've got equipment that uses dry lubricants due to cold. Are you saying dry lubricants don't lubricate and that viscosity is a requirement of lubrication.
I think your wrong.

 

[KrisZ]

Originally Posted By: jrustles
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Explain why that would be bad.

Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
They should come out with a 0W-0. People aren't gonna be happy until oil has no viscosity at all.


We already have a readily available fluid with virtually no viscosity; that would be air.

Are you asking why using air or any other gas as a lubricant would be bad?

Perhaps gasses are too viscous. A vacuum truly has no viscosity, I think a perfect hermetically sealed engine in a vacuum state would probably be the ultimate lube

Air is not a fluid and perhaps you meant water?
As most physical attributes, fluid viscosity has its basis and it is based on water since water does not change its viscosity with temperature, but instead goes straight to phase change.

 

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: 2010_FX4
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Originally Posted By: Vibe_2007
Do you guys think 5w-20 this late in the car's life would cause some oil usage or excessive engine noise?
Yes I do.

Merk - baloney! I have 135K on my FX4 and it has had 5W-20 in it for over 100K and now has 0W-20 in it for the last 25K or so. It uses no oil to speak of and it is also a quiet running engine. Your rhetoric grows old...




I couldn't agree more.





OP

For 50 bucks you can plumb in a recirculating coolant heater which heats and pumps warm coolant through the engine until start up. They are by far my favorite type of engine warmer and as a perk the heater blows heat immediately.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Air is not a fluid and perhaps you meant water?

Air is a fluid. It flows. It's not a liquid, but it certainly is a fluid.

 

[edhackett]

Originally Posted By: KrisZ

As most physical attributes, fluid viscosity has its basis and it is based on water since water does not change its viscosity with temperature, but instead goes straight to phase change.


Not true.

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/water-dynamic-kinematic-viscosity-d_596.html

Ed

 

[KrisZ]

Originally Posted By: edhackett
Originally Posted By: KrisZ

As most physical attributes, fluid viscosity has its basis and it is based on water since water does not change its viscosity with temperature, but instead goes straight to phase change.


Not true.

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/water-dynamic-kinematic-viscosity-d_596.html

Ed


I stand corrected. Having said that, isn't water the closest to the zero viscosity fluid in a liquid form (thanks Garak ) at normal to human beings temperatures?

 

[jrustles]

Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Originally Posted By: jrustles
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Explain why that would be bad.

Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
They should come out with a 0W-0. People aren't gonna be happy until oil has no viscosity at all.


We already have a readily available fluid with virtually no viscosity; that would be air.

Are you asking why using air or any other gas as a lubricant would be bad?

Perhaps gasses are too viscous. A vacuum truly has no viscosity, I think a perfect hermetically sealed engine in a vacuum state would probably be the ultimate lube

Air is not a fluid and perhaps you meant water?
As most physical attributes, fluid viscosity has its basis and it is based on water since water does not change its viscosity with temperature, but instead goes straight to phase change.


All liquids and gasses are fluids. If it has a viscosity (air and other gasses have a viscosity) then it's not solid, and fluid dynamics apply.

Technically, a vacuum (the absence of elemental compounds in a space) is not a fluid, as fluidity applies to matter and a vacuum is the absence of it

Viscosity is indeed THE BASIS of lubrication. The ideal that kschachn suggested was that the perfect oil lube should be as low-viscosity as possible while still being able to be entrained in a hydrodynamic wedge, or at least have molecules that attract each other the least, if at all- the basis for viscosity. Well there is a limit for low-viscosity before it no longer serves it's purpose.. Unfortunately, oil lubrication cannot exist without viscosity, not in this dimension.

We sometimes get it confused with the real ideal that tribos strive for;- the least amount of viscosity change with temperature of a prescribed viscosity- not the elimination of viscosity altogether- and this can only be tweaked with adulterants and specially made hydrocarbon types. As a rule, if it's a hydrocarbon, it's viscosity will be affected by temperature, no exceptions.

Not to get too serious, I was just razzing kschachn

 

[cmhj]

Ran 5/20 in those engines for years, no issues.

 

[edhackett]

Originally Posted By: KrisZ

I stand corrected. Having said that, isn't water the closest to the zero viscosity fluid in a liquid form (thanks Garak ) at normal to human beings temperatures?


There are quite a few liquids less viscous than water at "room temperature". The one that surprises me is mercury at 9X less viscous than water.

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/kinematic-viscosity-d_397.html

Ed

 

[Merkava_4]

Originally Posted By: 2010_FX4
Merk - baloney! I have 135K on my FX4 and it has had 5W-20 in it for over 100K and now has 0W-20 in it for the last 25K or so. It uses no oil to speak of and it is also a quiet running engine. Your rhetoric grows old...


Originally Posted By: rikstaker
I have noticed that 5w30 makes a marked difference in terms of engine smoothness and quietness at higher rpms. 5w20 make me feel my engine is losing metal with every rev

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: jrustles
We sometimes get it confused with the real ideal that tribos strive for;- the least amount of viscosity change with temperature of a prescribed viscosity

In other words, the highest viscosity index possible.

 

[jrustles]

Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: jrustles
We sometimes get it confused with the real ideal that tribos strive for;- the least amount of viscosity change with temperature of a prescribed viscosity

In other words, the highest viscosity index possible.

Yes, exactly. Infinite VI is the holy grail to any formulator or specifying body bound to fuel economy quotas, but not the elimination of viscosity. And of course, not every oil is a 200+ VI oil. In fact very few of them are, and for obvious reason since high- ideally 'infinite' VI is still an ideal, and still constrained by significant practical consequences.

 

[kschachn]

Some person saying proclaiming "5w20 make me feel my engine is losing metal with every rev" is not my basis for selecting a lubricant. Especially when you look back and read some of his other posts.

Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Originally Posted By: 2010_FX4
Merk - baloney! I have 135K on my FX4 and it has had 5W-20 in it for over 100K and now has 0W-20 in it for the last 25K or so. It uses no oil to speak of and it is also a quiet running engine. Your rhetoric grows old...


Originally Posted By: rikstaker
I have noticed that 5w30 makes a marked difference in terms of engine smoothness and quietness at higher rpms. 5w20 make me feel my engine is losing metal with every rev

 

[sicko]

Originally Posted By: Vibe_2007
You were reading my mind. I found the spec sheet for QSUD 5w-30 and I do not see how the Mobil 1 0w-30 is THAT much better in cold weather. Actually, all around QSUD is a GREAT oil.

Sicko, thank you much for putting together those links. I really appreciate it.

Okay, this thread kinda went off topic, but seriously QSUD is an excellent oil with excellent cold flow properties. Look at its PDS, look at all the manufacturer certifications/approvals it has, and look at its UOAs. People on here always talk M1 and Pennzoil, but I don't see any reason why a vehicle wouldn't last just as long using QSUD and be just as protected. I feel that you can stick with QSUD and not have to worry about anything this winter. Regardless of what oil you're using in the winter, just don't go beating on it until it's had a chance to warm up.

 

[crazyoildude]

stick with the qsud 5w30 as long as you can get it at an ok price

 

[Triton_330]

Originally Posted By: Miller88
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
They should come out with a 0W-0. People aren't gonna be happy until oil has no viscosity at all.


Sorry, forgot!

Anything thinner than a 15w40 is too thin.

I really shold start running 15w-40 in the winter and 20w-50 in summer.

Or would you recommend a 30-70 for summer? Maybe 85w140 gear oil?


Well, it probably wouldn't hurt nor help your engine to do so.
Of course 5w-20 and 5w-30 oils (and their 0w cousins) would be better than a 15w-40 in a car that doesn't call for it, but at my workplace there's a fleet Ford F-350 with the V10 Triton 6.8L that specs for 5w-20, but gets fleet 15w-40 instead. It runs fine as far as I can tell, though it kinda still bugs me just knowing.