Thoughts on going to 5w20 this winter in my Vibe

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Originally Posted By: kschachn
Explain why that would be bad.


Go ahead and try to lubricate something without viscosity..........I dare ya.
 
Personally, if the engine was back spec'ed to 5W20, I would go for it and just run a 0W20 and see how it fares.

The next option I would do is run a 0W20/0W30 blend (like pbm mentioned above). If you want to stick with a 30wt, I'd just run 0W30.

Also, I would run it all year long.
 
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
They should come out with a 0W-0. People aren't gonna be happy until oil has no viscosity at all.


Yeah I know .... I was thinking the same thing.
 
Originally Posted By: Vibe_2007
Originally Posted By: earlyre
Originally Posted By: Vibe_2007
Realize winter is a long way off, but I like to think ahead a bit.

2007 Vibe with 127K. Fed a steady diet of 5w30 since purchased.

Toyota TSB says 5w-20 is okay in the 1ZZ-FE in my model year.

Car has never used a drop of oil on 5w30.

Last winter there were temps many times of -22F, -10F, etc. and the car doesn't have a block heater and at this time in the car's life I don't want to purchase and install one. The wife is going to start taking this car over full-time and thought the 20wt oil would warm up faster for her in the mornings.

Do you guys think 5w-20 this late in the car's life would cause some oil usage or excessive engine noise?

If not, what is considered the best extreme cold 5w-20 out there? I use the QSUD the past couple winters in 30wt.

The TSB does mention not going to 0w-20, so that isn't an option, only 5w-20.


actually, the toyota block heater for the 1zzfe is rather simple to install.
no plumbing work needed. been trying to dig through genvibe for the part #... but it's only like $40, basically a little metallic nub that threads into a hole on the "back" side of the block (Diver's side of car, under the air cleaner)


You're right. You don't even have to drain coolant. Looks like a small cylindrical void in the engine block and it snaps in. The price I've seen online is 65.99.


found this aftermarket piece(Kat's) on amazon:
Amazon.com: Kat's 11813 Engine Heater Cartrige $38.47 + $7.77 shipping (not Prime Eligible)= $46.24
 
From the Matrix portion of the Toyota Black Heater Chart found here

YEAR:
2003-2008

ENGINE:
1ZZ-FE

HEATER NUMBER:
PU140-00902

REPLACEMENT CORD:
PU140-03571

CORE HOLE PLUG LOCATION AND CORDSET ROUTING:
Left side rear.
Coat core hole and cartridge heater (body only, not terminals) with NSCG silicone grease G-624 to ensure good temperature transfer, and prevent moisture (salt splash) from entering hole.
Route cord over the top of the main harness above the transmission and tie with three tie straps. Route to the front past the right side of the battery to the headlight section and tie with one strap. Attach the cord to the headlight harness with two straps. Route past the headlight into the compartment in front of the radiator.
Attach the cord to the horn cable with two straps.
Route to the front grille and attach with one strap.
Attach the protector cap to plug.

ELEMENT/CLIP DIRECTION (O'CLOCK):
3
 
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Originally Posted By: Vibe_2007
Do you guys think 5w-20 this late in the car's life would cause some oil usage or excessive engine noise?
Yes I do.

Merk - baloney! I have 135K on my FX4 and it has had 5W-20 in it for over 100K and now has 0W-20 in it for the last 25K or so. It uses no oil to speak of and it is also a quiet running engine. Your rhetoric grows old...
 
Thanks for the instructions! If you buy one it says they don't come with instructions.

ETA: What the heck, I just ordered a block heater for it. Wife should be happy when I tell her. This car goes un-garaged in winter, so it'll help get some heat to her faster.

This site costs me so much money! LOL

Originally Posted By: earlyre
From the Matrix portion of the Toyota Black Heater Chart found here

YEAR:
2003-2008

ENGINE:
1ZZ-FE

HEATER NUMBER:
PU140-00902

REPLACEMENT CORD:
PU140-03571

CORE HOLE PLUG LOCATION AND CORDSET ROUTING:
Left side rear.
Coat core hole and cartridge heater (body only, not terminals) with NSCG silicone grease G-624 to ensure good temperature transfer, and prevent moisture (salt splash) from entering hole.
Route cord over the top of the main harness above the transmission and tie with three tie straps. Route to the front past the right side of the battery to the headlight section and tie with one strap. Attach the cord to the headlight harness with two straps. Route past the headlight into the compartment in front of the radiator.
Attach the cord to the horn cable with two straps.
Route to the front grille and attach with one strap.
Attach the protector cap to plug.

ELEMENT/CLIP DIRECTION (O'CLOCK):
3
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Vibe_2007
Looks like my only choice for a 0w-30 is from Mobil as Quaker State doesn't make one.

After reading some of these replies, it looks like a 0w-30 looks like a great idea.

ETA: I see that Amsoil also makes a 0w-30.



If you want it to say 0w-30 on the label, your options are limited. However, if you look at some 5w-30 synthetic oils from companies that don't have a 0w-30 option, their 5w-30 synthetics perform like a 0w-30. Look at the PDS or PQI America numbers for Formula Shell Synthetic, Pennzoil (both Platinum and Ultra), QSUD, and Havoline synthetic. Their cold flow properties are so good they're basically a 0w oil sold as a 5w.

If you want to go with Mobil or Amsoil, then go ahead b/c they're great oils. But if you wanted to stick with QSUD, check out the specs on their 5w-30 because I really don't think you'll be giving up anything using it over a 0w oil.

Check out this link for PQI America and check out the PDS's for the oils you're interested in on their manufacturer's website:
http://www.pqiamerica.com/March2013PCMO/Marchsyntheticsallfinal.html


Compare those cold viscosity numbers to some 0w-20s:
http://www.pqiamerica.com/June%202014/qu...mpaign=7-3-2014
http://www.pqiamerica.com/June%202014/wa...mpaign=7-3-2014
http://www.pqiamerica.com/June 2014/exmoM1.htm?utm_source=July+3,+2014&utm_campaign=7-3-2014
 
Originally Posted By: 2010_FX4
Merk - baloney! I have 135K on my FX4 and it has had 5W-20 in it for over 100K and now has 0W-20 in it for the last 25K or so. It uses no oil to speak of and it is also a quiet running engine. Your rhetoric grows old...


Geez man.........Gimme three steps towards the door..........
27.gif
grin2.gif


"Won't you give me three steps,
Gimme three steps mister,
Gimme three steps towards the door?
Gimme three steps
Gimme three steps mister,
And you'll never see me no more."

Lynyrd Skynyrd - 1976
 
A 0W-20 should work just fine, as would M1 0W-30.
Engines aren't as sensitive to SAE viscosity as some here seem to think. A change of one grade up or down is not a world-ending experience for any engine. Early 5W-30s, from back in the mid 'eighties, when GM lead the way in recommending this then daringly thin grade, quickly became 5W-20s anyway and as tig like to remind us, the original M1 was a 5W-20 and it worked just fine in 'seventies engines on 10K drains.
If the engine is in generally good shape and shows neither consumption nor any unusual wear, it will be fine. It's not like 127K is really high mileage. In another 100K, you'll be there.
Just remember that past is not prologue.
Last winter was a once in a decade event, with record lows all over the country and plenty of frozen delight falling on a regular basis, with record amounts of snow in many parts of the country. We had more below zero mornings than I can ever recall, but no record lows. We saw one of the highest snowfall totals on record, but no record falls at any one time.
Thse coming winter looks to be a much milder one.
We'll see.
 
It does get old, and you constant nonsensical diversions like the one below only compound the baloney.

Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Originally Posted By: 2010_FX4
Merk - baloney! I have 135K on my FX4 and it has had 5W-20 in it for over 100K and now has 0W-20 in it for the last 25K or so. It uses no oil to speak of and it is also a quiet running engine. Your rhetoric grows old...


Geez man.........Gimme three steps towards the door..........
27.gif
grin2.gif


"Won't you give me three steps,
Gimme three steps mister,
Gimme three steps towards the door?
Gimme three steps
Gimme three steps mister,
And you'll never see me no more."

Lynyrd Skynyrd - 1976
 
You were reading my mind. I found the spec sheet for QSUD 5w-30 and I do not see how the Mobil 1 0w-30 is THAT much better in cold weather. Actually, all around QSUD is a GREAT oil.

Sicko, thank you much for putting together those links. I really appreciate it.
cheers3.gif


Originally Posted By: sicko
Originally Posted By: Vibe_2007
Looks like my only choice for a 0w-30 is from Mobil as Quaker State doesn't make one.

After reading some of these replies, it looks like a 0w-30 looks like a great idea.

ETA: I see that Amsoil also makes a 0w-30.



If you want it to say 0w-30 on the label, your options are limited. However, if you look at some 5w-30 synthetic oils from companies that don't have a 0w-30 option, their 5w-30 synthetics perform like a 0w-30. Look at the PDS or PQI America numbers for Formula Shell Synthetic, Pennzoil (both Platinum and Ultra), QSUD, and Havoline synthetic. Their cold flow properties are so good they're basically a 0w oil sold as a 5w.

If you want to go with Mobil or Amsoil, then go ahead b/c they're great oils. But if you wanted to stick with QSUD, check out the specs on their 5w-30 because I really don't think you'll be giving up anything using it over a 0w oil.

Check out this link for PQI America and check out the PDS's for the oils you're interested in on their manufacturer's website:
http://www.pqiamerica.com/March2013PCMO/Marchsyntheticsallfinal.html


Compare those cold viscosity numbers to some 0w-20s:
http://www.pqiamerica.com/June%202014/qu...mpaign=7-3-2014
http://www.pqiamerica.com/June%202014/wa...mpaign=7-3-2014
http://www.pqiamerica.com/June 2014/exmoM1.htm?utm_source=July+3,+2014&utm_campaign=7-3-2014
 
I sure hope you are right on some milder winters. I couldn't believe the temp readouts from the car's thermometer each morning, as I left the house last winter.

I do think this car has not even had half its life yet as I have seen some very high mileage Vibes/Matrix/Corollas. Very reliable cars with very reliable Asin Warner transmissions. Would be thrilled to get 250K from this car as it has been paid off for several years now.

Originally Posted By: fdcg27
A 0W-20 should work just fine, as would M1 0W-30.
Engines aren't as sensitive to SAE viscosity as some here seem to think. A change of one grade up or down is not a world-ending experience for any engine. Early 5W-30s, from back in the mid 'eighties, when GM lead the way in recommending this then daringly thin grade, quickly became 5W-20s anyway and as tig like to remind us, the original M1 was a 5W-20 and it worked just fine in 'seventies engines on 10K drains.
If the engine is in generally good shape and shows neither consumption nor any unusual wear, it will be fine. It's not like 127K is really high mileage. In another 100K, you'll be there.
Just remember that past is not prologue.
Last winter was a once in a decade event, with record lows all over the country and plenty of frozen delight falling on a regular basis, with record amounts of snow in many parts of the country. We had more below zero mornings than I can ever recall, but no record lows. We saw one of the highest snowfall totals on record, but no record falls at any one time.
Thse coming winter looks to be a much milder one.
We'll see.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: sicko
If you want it to say 0w-30 on the label, your options are limited. However, if you look at some 5w-30 synthetic oils from companies that don't have a 0w-30 option, their 5w-30 synthetics perform like a 0w-30. Look at the PDS or PQI America numbers for Formula Shell Synthetic, Pennzoil (both Platinum and Ultra), QSUD, and Havoline synthetic. Their cold flow properties are so good they're basically a 0w oil sold as a 5w.

That's a minor hyperbole. By the way, speaking of data sheets, go take a look at Formula Shell Synthetic's sheet and then look at Formula Shell's sheet, side by side, and tell me what's wrong. Shell knows there's a problem, but hasn't touched it for over two years.
 
Quote:
Going from 30W (when hot) to 20W (when hot) will do nothing special for your engine in Winter, because your engine runs at the same temperature year round, once warmed up, thanks to your thermostat and cooling system.

Nah. The thermostat will keep the coolant in the head, at the thermostat location, at a relatively constant temperature. Anyone who has seen the mayonnaise-like gunk under their oil cap in the winter knows that their oil isn't getting hot enough. -20° air blowing past the oil pan guarantees that.

Vibe, use the 0W-20 or 5W-20 oil. It'll work great. If you don't like it, it doesn't cost much to drain & replace the oil--keep the filter.

You, or your Mrs., will like the block heater. She'll get cabin heat in a very short drive, windows clear, better gas mileage at the beginning of the trip due to the quicker warm up, and cleaner exhaust.
 
Originally Posted By: HangFire
Going from 30W (when hot) to 20W (when hot) will do nothing special for your engine in Winter, because your engine runs at the same temperature year round, once warmed up, thanks to your thermostat and cooling system.


At 20 or 30 below zero, that engine oil is likely to never warm up. It might fully warm up after 30-45 minutes of driving, maybe, depending on how far your wife's commute might be.

I would go with synthetic 0W20 or 5W20 in this engine for winter and back to 5W30 for summer.
 
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
They should come out with a 0W-0. People aren't gonna be happy until oil has no viscosity at all.


Sorry, forgot!

Anything thinner than a 15w40 is too thin.

I really shold start running 15w-40 in the winter and 20w-50 in summer.

Or would you recommend a 30-70 for summer? Maybe 85w140 gear oil?
 
The commute is only 2 miles of city streets and 5 miles of highway @ 65mph. Total of 7 miles. Commute takes only 15 minutes from door to door.

No doubt I am going to have to take the car out on a weekend now and then and run it for awhile like I have to in the winter.

Originally Posted By: bubbatime
Originally Posted By: HangFire
Going from 30W (when hot) to 20W (when hot) will do nothing special for your engine in Winter, because your engine runs at the same temperature year round, once warmed up, thanks to your thermostat and cooling system.


At 20 or 30 below zero, that engine oil is likely to never warm up. It might fully warm up after 30-45 minutes of driving, maybe, depending on how far your wife's commute might be.

I would go with synthetic 0W20 or 5W20 in this engine for winter and back to 5W30 for summer.
 
Last edited:
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