Things Stupid People Say About Winter Tires
- Thread starter BillyHW
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You're argument appears to be that you have some type of juvenile issues with someone doing something successfully for decades without any special equipment, that you seem to require. But don't worry, you'll get over it. People like yourself just need more time to catch on.
So what you saying is that people who did not get their kids killed before child seats were invented or themselves before seatbelts were invented, were successful in avoiding death? Therefore, we don’t need to buy child seats or put seatbelts on.
I don’t require anything. I just need less then 38 years to learn something, regardless whether I think it is necessary or not.
Good God kid, take a chill pill and relax. If you want to buy Winter tires, knock yourself out and spend away. No one is stopping you. I'm simply telling you that I drove for decades in Chicago Winters successfully, and without any problems without them. That's it. I don't understand, nor do I care why you're having so many issues with that. It doesn't matter in the least how wonderful Winter tire technology has advanced now, because it wasn't available then. And now, 30 years later, I no longer live where I have to deal with any of it. If you do, and can't sleep at night without them, go for it...... Before you have a hemmorage.
While I have a set of dedicated studded snows for all my vehicles in Colorado and I'm a studded snow tire junkie, there is some truth to this statement. My Dad, who grew up on the east coast drove rwd drive cars with a set of bias ply snow tires all his life. Some winters ago we took his rear wheel drive Mustang, with all seasons, on the same roads edyvw is driving on from the Springs to Breckenridge. We hit some bad snow, ground blizzards, etc. He just drove like always and we made it there and back many times. Repeat this trip over and over, but with a Mazda RX-7, a Lincoln town car, with the same results. Me with my 4wd pickups was freaked out until I learned to watch and observe how he did it.
I have owned four vehicles over 30 years driving. Only one had winter tires and yes significantly improved etc but careful selection of winter capable all-seasons, winter oriented training at drivers Ed, growing up in White Mountains and many powder chasing days zero accidents on all-seasons.
Nope. You were arguing a few pages back how that is not the case. Winter tires were available 30 years ago, of course, it is just that like now, you "knew" better than everyone else so you really never asked about that. A few pages back you were obfuscating this thing about your winter driving skills after driving 38 years in Chicago, and now you do not care (Chicago driving is not some kind of measurement in the end). If you did not care, you would not troll here. It is just that you have to tell yourself that you were right all these years, and we (and others) are all wrong.
Of course, I have snow tires, on all three vehicles, but then, I do not have my head buried in the sand.
Sure, it is possible, same as it is possible not to wear a seatbelt and be fine all your life.
That is not a problem. The problem is when you are in the neighborhood and it is icy, and you drive 10mph bcs. you know, snow/ice, neighborhood, and then kid jumps out on sled bcs. he/she did not stop before the road. That is when snow tires matter and that is where every foot counts, and in situations like that snow tires can stop 10-20ft sooner than all season (even more).
Driving from point A to point B through the snow on bad or not adequate tires is not an issue. I did on purely summer tires in Europe, not all season. But that does not mean I will get away in the future when I have to stop in the neighborhood bcs. kids.
And that is exactly what is being discussed on neighborhood Facebook pages. No one discusses why snow tires are important when it comes to stopping distance or holding roads. Everyone is scared of being stuck and everyone has "common sense."
You think a deer never jumped out in front of us going down Ute Pass? You think many times on Wilkerson Pass didn't have a car sliding in front of you? While I really do agree with you on everything you are saying, a skilled winter driver like my Dad showed me it's possible to do just what 460 is saying too. Is he the outlier? Probably especially considering all the Californians with their race Audi's are driving like mad here. I wouldn't be without studded snows, and could make the same arguments you just did on winter tires without studs....why not have the safest possible when they are available.
Is it possible to avoid deer in snow with all season? Absolutely. But last time I checked that is two lane road and there are a lot of cars coming from other direction.
If things worked that way, we would not need a lot of things on the car that keeps us safe. We could all buy Ling Long tires and sVe ourselves huge amount of money bcs. it is possible to avoid deer, or sliding car etc. But life doesn’t work that way. Yesterday I saw some girl turning from side street on three lane road and bum, she crosses all lanes to go directly into left lane. Guy in KIA Sorento was blasting pass me in left lane, brake hard, figured he cannot stop, make hard right turn. But he was carrying too much speed, loses control initially, but right as I was thinking he is going to flip, I guess ESP corrected a bit and he managed to get it under control. Excellent eyes, reaction and skill. But, if I was 5-10mph faster he would not have space to execute that maneuver. It was at such limit, I think his tires (dry road) and probably mechanically good vehicle was something that saved this girl and him. If he hit her, it would be really, really bad. So yeah, it is possible to avoid, etc. but then, sometimes it is not.
Yes.
But not all rubber is the same.
Rubber with a softer compound grips ice better.
Sipes improve ice grip.
Studs help, too.
So, all the things that winter tires have, intrinsically, improve ice grip.
And summer tires don’t have any of those things...they are horrible in the winter. Absolutely dangerous. Truly dangerous. Had W rated summer performance tires in the snow and freezing rain once (forecast was off). No amount of skill or caution could overcome how awful they were.
And all season tires? Well, depends…some suck. Some suck less. None of them are as good as winter tires.
You‘re stuck on snow tires from forty years ago. Technology has changed in the interim.
Tires have improved.
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Sounds like you just like to win arguments. I said I agree with you.
There is no win here. We all go to our own lives. But there is a lot of expectation that driving is like mathematics, where 2+2 is always 4. I know that you said you agree. And I told you I understand that whatever you said it is possible, and it is possible to drive 38 years without problems. But then you have someone who get DL and dies within few days bcs. something. It is all about probabilities and how to lower probability of certain event. That is it.
AZjeff
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Problems arise in discussions when people speak in absolute terms unfortunately that's what happened here.
We have a new entry! Down below.
"I don't need winter tires because I'm a good driver."
"I don't need winter tires because I have AWD."
"I don't need winter tires because I have All-Seasons."
"I don't need winter tires because just drive to the conditions."
"I don't need winter tires because I've never had a problem before."
"I don't need winter tires because snow plows."
"I don't need winter tires because road salt."
Edit: UPDATES FROM MEMBERS:
"I don't need winter tires because all you need is common sense."
"I don't need winter tires because it all boils down to how you drive."
"I don't need winter tires because I understand physics."
"I don't need winter tires because I watched my old man drive on bias ply tires."
"I don't need winter tires because I'm a good driver."
"I don't need winter tires because I have AWD."
"I don't need winter tires because I have All-Seasons."
"I don't need winter tires because just drive to the conditions."
"I don't need winter tires because I've never had a problem before."
"I don't need winter tires because snow plows."
"I don't need winter tires because road salt."
Edit: UPDATES FROM MEMBERS:
"I don't need winter tires because all you need is common sense."
"I don't need winter tires because it all boils down to how you drive."
"I don't need winter tires because I understand physics."
"I don't need winter tires because I watched my old man drive on bias ply tires."
Devils advocate: if you’re going to tell people they must run a winter tire for snow, you should also be preaching that they need a proper summer tire or “ultra high performance all season” like the Michelin Pilot Sport All Season 4 as well since they do better in rain and dry pavement than the “do everything” all season tires.
Another new entry!
"I don't need winter tires because I'm a good driver."
"I don't need winter tires because I have AWD."
"I don't need winter tires because I have All-Seasons."
"I don't need winter tires because just drive to the conditions."
"I don't need winter tires because I've never had a problem before."
"I don't need winter tires because snow plows."
"I don't need winter tires because road salt."
Edit: UPDATES FROM MEMBERS:
"I don't need winter tires because all you need is common sense."
"I don't need winter tires because it all boils down to how you drive."
"I don't need winter tires because I understand physics."
"I don't need winter tires because I watched my old man drive on bias ply tires."
"I don't need winter tires because people also drive all-seasons during the summer, so there."
"I don't need winter tires because I'm a good driver."
"I don't need winter tires because I have AWD."
"I don't need winter tires because I have All-Seasons."
"I don't need winter tires because just drive to the conditions."
"I don't need winter tires because I've never had a problem before."
"I don't need winter tires because snow plows."
"I don't need winter tires because road salt."
Edit: UPDATES FROM MEMBERS:
"I don't need winter tires because all you need is common sense."
"I don't need winter tires because it all boils down to how you drive."
"I don't need winter tires because I understand physics."
"I don't need winter tires because I watched my old man drive on bias ply tires."
"I don't need winter tires because people also drive all-seasons during the summer, so there."
How would requiring that tires driven in winter have a minimum performance on ice and snow and cold (the 3PMSF standard) be any different than requiring that tires driven in summer have a minimum tread depth of 2/32"?
And there aren't major accidents in summer from a lack of all-season tire traction like there are in winter from a lack of winter tire traction. The whole point is that tires that call themselves all-season tires are so summer-biased that they are not adequate for the winter season. I'm all for raising the standards of traction for all tires in every season, but the major point of failure right now is during the winter season where the standards are too low and need to be raised. That is where the problem is occurring.
We're just talking about setting more reasonable minimum standards, not forcing everyone into the best tires on the market. The M+S standard just isn't good enough anymore.
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