in the late 60s i went to the world points finals from 1965 to 1968. one time i saw a guy with a max wedge with an aluminium front end. he lost the hood in the traps. and NHRA would NOT let him use a steel hood. i have known some racers leave NHRA cause of the gestapo tactics. OH about winning? when you own half the cars at the track you do have a chance to win.
they are still doing it NHRA
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Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: morris
yep 7-20-14 sun. NHRA drag racing Denver Co. if i post it this time you will say iam beating a dead horse. 30 passes. only 10 under full power.
I know how you feel. This is not racing like you and I grew up with!!!
yeah no kidding
1 cylinder of a tfd/tfc makes more hp than all 8 cylinders did back then.
Originally Posted By: morris
yep 7-20-14 sun. NHRA drag racing Denver Co. if i post it this time you will say iam beating a dead horse. 30 passes. only 10 under full power.
I know how you feel. This is not racing like you and I grew up with!!!
yeah no kidding
1 cylinder of a tfd/tfc makes more hp than all 8 cylinders did back then.
OK sanoma cal. 7-27-14 only 6 out of 30 pass with both car at full power. thats all.
I've said it before, but a sealed engine as you keep mentioning over and over again, would kill the Fuel car classes.
I know that I and most of my colleagues would lose interest in running a Fuel car that is a shadow of it's former self. Most of the fans would follow in their lack of interest in a lame Fuel Car class. A Top Fuel Dragster or Funny Car that can't run with a Pro Stock Car, would be an insult to the original intent of their respective classes.
There are a slew of regulations that are intended to and do slow the cars down, which make these cars much more tricky to tune. Especially for a track with an inconsistent surface.
Sorry you weren't pleased with the Sonoma event.
On to Pacific Raceways, where conditions are often conducive to good runs.
I know that I and most of my colleagues would lose interest in running a Fuel car that is a shadow of it's former self. Most of the fans would follow in their lack of interest in a lame Fuel Car class. A Top Fuel Dragster or Funny Car that can't run with a Pro Stock Car, would be an insult to the original intent of their respective classes.
There are a slew of regulations that are intended to and do slow the cars down, which make these cars much more tricky to tune. Especially for a track with an inconsistent surface.
Sorry you weren't pleased with the Sonoma event.
On to Pacific Raceways, where conditions are often conducive to good runs.
Originally Posted By: 02SE
I've said it before, but a sealed engine as you keep mentioning over and over again, would kill the Fuel car classes.
I don't go out of my way to watch NHRA, I will catch it when I am flipping through and remember it is on. However if they went to sealed engines in the fuel class I would lose complete interest. Half the fun is watching the crew chiefs come up with a tune that will let the car stick and not spin tire.
I've said it before, but a sealed engine as you keep mentioning over and over again, would kill the Fuel car classes.
I don't go out of my way to watch NHRA, I will catch it when I am flipping through and remember it is on. However if they went to sealed engines in the fuel class I would lose complete interest. Half the fun is watching the crew chiefs come up with a tune that will let the car stick and not spin tire.
it would NOT kill it. they have adapted to lower nitro level, 1,000 ft track. no computer control clutch, blower size restriction, rear end ratio limit, wing size limit, engine cubic inch limit. and just off the top of my head. they WILL adapt!!! how in world is 70% failing to finish under power a RACE? i thought a race was BOTH car finishing the track under power. or am i crazy?
You've only scratched the surface of the various regulations and restrictions, Fuel cars must adhere to.
A "Race" is beating the guy in the other lane. Or in the case of the Four-Wide deal, the other three lanes. Whether the car(s) in the other lane(s) finish under power or not.
I get it. You want them tamed to the point that everyone finishes under power, no matter the circumstances.
I can tell you that I and all of the colleagues I've discussed this with over the years, would give up Fuel racing if it came to that. Not that it would matter, because the majority of fans would stop coming out to the races, if the Fuel cars were no longer the ground-pounding, ear-splitting, internal organ rearranging, noxious fume belching violent machines we know and love.
I say lets just race the team traveling and tow vehicles. Imagine a bunch of Toyota Minivans and SUV's racing down the track. Everyone would finish under power!
At any rate, this discussion is going nowhere.
Have a good night.
A "Race" is beating the guy in the other lane. Or in the case of the Four-Wide deal, the other three lanes. Whether the car(s) in the other lane(s) finish under power or not.
I get it. You want them tamed to the point that everyone finishes under power, no matter the circumstances.
I can tell you that I and all of the colleagues I've discussed this with over the years, would give up Fuel racing if it came to that. Not that it would matter, because the majority of fans would stop coming out to the races, if the Fuel cars were no longer the ground-pounding, ear-splitting, internal organ rearranging, noxious fume belching violent machines we know and love.
I say lets just race the team traveling and tow vehicles. Imagine a bunch of Toyota Minivans and SUV's racing down the track. Everyone would finish under power!
At any rate, this discussion is going nowhere.
Have a good night.
how do you "BEAT" some one if he gives of half way down the track. that is a "FAIL TO RACE". ill say this if i was a top fuel tuner and my engine blew up 70% of the time i would be VERY embarrassed.
could this happen? iam a top furl tuner and EVERY run the other guy fails to be at full power at the finish line? SOOOOOO did i win the race? what think? would you be proud if that happened to you?
how is that different than the other person red lighting?
it is not.
a large part of TF ***IS*** getting the tune right for the track.
then the driver has to do the job they are paid for! pedal it or not.
it is too bad you dont understand this simple concept.
it is not.
a large part of TF ***IS*** getting the tune right for the track.
then the driver has to do the job they are paid for! pedal it or not.
it is too bad you dont understand this simple concept.
i DO understand all you say. my first NHRA drag race was 1955 greatbend KS. it IS hard to run a fast car for sure. BUT when 70% of the passes are ONLY one car at full power. that is NOT a race.
Morris,
Ever watch fuel altereds race back in the day? A complete pass with both cars under full power was rare in that class. Were they "racing"? I bet Willie Bosch felt that he was doing the best he could. How about funny cars match racing at strips that weren't really prepared well or safe? Often they would reduce the Nitro percentage to save on parts. Was that racing? How about a car failing to make the next round call resulting in a bye run? Or a car losing fire after a burnout? 40 years ago I saw a lot of fuel cars make incomplete passes. The good old days weren't always that good.
Ever watch fuel altereds race back in the day? A complete pass with both cars under full power was rare in that class. Were they "racing"? I bet Willie Bosch felt that he was doing the best he could. How about funny cars match racing at strips that weren't really prepared well or safe? Often they would reduce the Nitro percentage to save on parts. Was that racing? How about a car failing to make the next round call resulting in a bye run? Or a car losing fire after a burnout? 40 years ago I saw a lot of fuel cars make incomplete passes. The good old days weren't always that good.
The late "Wild Willie" Borsch.
Now that's entertainment!
O YA i went to the world points finals from 1965 to 1968. i have talked to Ronnie Sox, BIG DADDY, connie with a SOHC ford digger. i have seen the mopar A/FX cars in Wichita and BIG. we had our own hero John Webee BEFORE he was fast. O and dont for get i was at the FIRST NHRA nationals 1955 greatbend KS. so i think i can have option that that is valid. and the altered was crazy cause of the short wheelbase. BUT failed engines and tire spin by now should be a thing of the past by now. how many pages of info do they have on the race condition do they have but still cant get it hooked of.
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Originally Posted By: morris
O YA i went to the world points finals from 1965 to 1968. i have talked to Ronnie Sox, BIG DADDY, connie with a SOHC ford digger. i have seen the mopar A/FX cars in Wichita and BIG. we had our own hero John Webee BEFORE he was fast. O and dont for get i was at the FIRST NHRA nationals 1955 greatbend KS. so i think i can have option that that is valid. and the altered was crazy cause of the short wheelbase. BUT failed engines and tire spin by now should be a thing of the past by now. how many pages of info do they have on the race condition do they have but still cant get it hooked of.
A LOT has changed on Fuel cars, in the last 46 or 59 years. Depending on which year you're referencing.
As I've already said, there are numerous regulations and restrictions that make these cars much more tricky to tune. I'd be happy if most of those went away. Until then, they will always be tricky to tune.
If you think you can do a better job than those of us that have been doing this for years, by all means come out and show us how it's done.
In lieu of that, I hope you can still enjoy watching the races, despite our inept efforts.
O YA i went to the world points finals from 1965 to 1968. i have talked to Ronnie Sox, BIG DADDY, connie with a SOHC ford digger. i have seen the mopar A/FX cars in Wichita and BIG. we had our own hero John Webee BEFORE he was fast. O and dont for get i was at the FIRST NHRA nationals 1955 greatbend KS. so i think i can have option that that is valid. and the altered was crazy cause of the short wheelbase. BUT failed engines and tire spin by now should be a thing of the past by now. how many pages of info do they have on the race condition do they have but still cant get it hooked of.
A LOT has changed on Fuel cars, in the last 46 or 59 years. Depending on which year you're referencing.
As I've already said, there are numerous regulations and restrictions that make these cars much more tricky to tune. I'd be happy if most of those went away. Until then, they will always be tricky to tune.
If you think you can do a better job than those of us that have been doing this for years, by all means come out and show us how it's done.
In lieu of that, I hope you can still enjoy watching the races, despite our inept efforts.
Originally Posted By: 02SE
If you think you can do a better job than those of us that have been doing this for years, by all means come out and show us how it's done.
In lieu of that, I hope you can still enjoy watching the races, despite our inept efforts.
Thanks for posting your insight. Always interesting hearing from those that work in racing series what their thoughts are on the current situation in their respective series.
If you think you can do a better job than those of us that have been doing this for years, by all means come out and show us how it's done.
In lieu of that, I hope you can still enjoy watching the races, despite our inept efforts.
Thanks for posting your insight. Always interesting hearing from those that work in racing series what their thoughts are on the current situation in their respective series.
Originally Posted By: 02SE
The late "Wild Willie" Borsch.
Now that's the drag racing of olden times: wildly out of control overpowered machines driven by men who were either crazy or clanged when they walked. Parts breakage and incomplete passes have always been part of the game. The object is to win, and to win you have to tune to either the limit of the car or the limit of the track. If you exceed the limit of the car, you blow up and lose. If you exceed the limit of the track, you go up in smoke and lose. I think the most exciting races are where both cars go up in smoke, and it becomes a contest between drivers who can pedal the throttle more effectively.
The late "Wild Willie" Borsch.
Now that's the drag racing of olden times: wildly out of control overpowered machines driven by men who were either crazy or clanged when they walked. Parts breakage and incomplete passes have always been part of the game. The object is to win, and to win you have to tune to either the limit of the car or the limit of the track. If you exceed the limit of the car, you blow up and lose. If you exceed the limit of the track, you go up in smoke and lose. I think the most exciting races are where both cars go up in smoke, and it becomes a contest between drivers who can pedal the throttle more effectively.
when i posted O YA i did NOT mean it to say in your face. i might have phrased it wrong. i ment it to say i do understand what you are saying. i have not tuned fuel engines. but i HAVE helped on diff diggers / old style funny cars. ill say this. IF the blow up engines was reduced by 50% but the cars top MPH droped by 30-40. but you had 50% of the passes with two cars side by side. you WOULD have a better race, and happier FANS. the classes that do that NOW have tons of interest. dont they?
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