The old tire debate.....

[daves87rs]

Originally Posted by CapriRacer
Some additional thoughts:

If you don't have sidewall cracks, the tires still might NOT be good!

Ya' see, some tire manufacturers use crack resistant rubbers in the sidewall - AND - since we are using the sidewall as an indicator to what is going on at the belt edge (the most highly stressed area of the tire!), a crack resistant rubber doesn't tell us what might be going on where we need the most information.

So, cracks = bad. No cracks = go by time!

And since we are talking about cracks in the sidewall, what are warning signs is when the cracks extend INTO the rubber - not superficial. "Crazing" is OK, but when you can see depth to the cracks, that's the time to replace them.

Dates? The date you want to use is when the tires were installed. But if we don't know that, go by the manufacture date.

Tires in storage age very slowly, compared to tires in service - to the point where you can almost ignore the time between manufacture and installation.


The last comment had me thinking....so you you bought say a "new:" tire that was a year old, would you still be able to keep it in service for six years? (If the condition were right)

Think I should also tale a pic of them as well....

 

[CapriRacer]

Originally Posted by daves87rs
The last comment had me thinking....so you you bought say a "new:" tire that was a year old, would you still be able to keep it in service for six years? (If the condition were right) l....


Yes, if you bought a tire from a tire dealer that was 1 year old, then the time starts ticking when you bought it - and according to the criteria you are using, you would be scheduled to remove it 7 years after the date on the tire.

HOWEVER

I think you are hung up on the "rule" that isn't a rule.

Here's what the USTMA (US Tire Manufacturers Association) has to say on the subject:

USTMA is not aware of scientific or technical data that establishes
or identifies a specific minimum or maximum service life for
passenger and light truck tires. However, in some cases a tire
or vehicle manufacturer may make a specific tire replacement
recommendation regarding its products. If so, the consumer
should consult the manufacturer with any questions with
regard to following the recommendation. Furthermore, any
such recommendation should not be considered a minimum
service life for the tire.

 

[novadude]

Originally Posted by CapriRacer
Some additional thoughts:

If you don't have sidewall cracks, the tires still might NOT be good!

Ya' see, some tire manufacturers use crack resistant rubbers in the sidewall - AND - since we are using the sidewall as an indicator to what is going on at the belt edge (the most highly stressed area of the tire!), a crack resistant rubber doesn't tell us what might be going on where we need the most information.

So, cracks = bad. No cracks = go by time!

And since we are talking about cracks in the sidewall, what are warning signs is when the cracks extend INTO the rubber - not superficial. "Crazing" is OK, but when you can see depth to the cracks, that's the time to replace them.

Dates? The date you want to use is when the tires were installed. But if we don't know that, go by the manufacture date.

Tires in storage age very slowly, compared to tires in service - to the point where you can almost ignore the time between manufacture and installation.


In your expert opinion, what about tire life on a collector car that is always garaged and only sees ~1000-2000 miles a year? Tires always kept clean and dry, never driven in rain, etc. Is 10 years still the max limit for safe use, or can you stretch it longer and not need to worry?

 

[CapriRacer]

Originally Posted by novadude
In your expert opinion, what about tire life on a collector car that is always garaged and only sees ~1000-2000 miles a year? Tires always kept clean and dry, never driven in rain, etc. Is 10 years still the max limit for safe use, or can you stretch it longer and not need to worry?


Allow me to give you a procedure that you can use to extend the life.

Buy a set of Kevlar gloves:
Amazon: Kevlar Gloves

Why Kevlar? They are thin enough to feel things, but cut resistant to prevent damaging your hands.

BEFORE every trip, rub your hand over the entire tread surface - as close to 360° as you can. You are looking for a bulge. If you find one, drive SLOWLY directly to the tire shop and buy new tires.

Also, be sensitive to any vibration that gradually gets worse over time. that's a tread separation growing. If that happens, also go directly to the tire shop.

You are in PA and that area of the country is not really known as a hot spot for tread separations - not like AZ, TX, CA, NM, NV, and FL. Notice the hot climates

And lastly, avoid high speeds and hard cornering. Those will promote a tread separation.!

 

[zeng]

Originally Posted by CapriRacer
Originally Posted by novadude
In your expert opinion, what about tire life on a collector car that is always garaged and only sees ~1000-2000 miles a year? Tires always kept clean and dry, never driven in rain, etc. Is 10 years still the max limit for safe use, or can you stretch it longer and not need to worry?


Allow me to give you a procedure that you can use to extend the life.


BEFORE every trip, rub your hand over the entire tread surface - as close to 360° as you can. You are looking for a bulge. If you find one, drive SLOWLY directly to the tire shop and buy new tires.

Also, be sensitive to any vibration that gradually gets worse over time. that's a tread separation growing. If that happens, also go directly to the tire shop.



And lastly, avoid high speeds and hard cornering. Those will promote a tread separation.!


Very sensible protocol .

 

[Paul_Siu]

Checking the tire before every trip seems a bit of a pain. Is there a time when you should start doing that like after the 7 year mark if it's not in a garage? If you car is parked outside underneath a car port with a roof and open side, it's still like the outside? Would there be things like UV blockers you can apply to the sidewall to retard the effect of the sun?

On edmund, I see the following quote:

Many automakers, including Ford, Nissan and Mercedes-Benz, tell owners to replace tires six years after their production date, regardless of tread life. Tire manufacturers such as Continental and Michelin say a tire can last up to 10 years provided you get annual tire inspections after the fifth year.

Paul

 

[daves87rs]

Originally Posted by CapriRacer
Originally Posted by daves87rs
The last comment had me thinking....so you you bought say a "new:" tire that was a year old, would you still be able to keep it in service for six years? (If the condition were right) l....


Yes, if you bought a tire from a tire dealer that was 1 year old, then the time starts ticking when you bought it - and according to the criteria you are using, you would be scheduled to remove it 7 years after the date on the tire.

HOWEVER

I think you are hung up on the "rule" that isn't a rule.

Here's what the USTMA (US Tire Manufacturers Association) has to say on the subject:

USTMA is not aware of scientific or technical data that establishes
or identifies a specific minimum or maximum service life for
passenger and light truck tires. However, in some cases a tire
or vehicle manufacturer may make a specific tire replacement
recommendation regarding its products. If so, the consumer
should consult the manufacturer with any questions with
regard to following the recommendation. Furthermore, any
such recommendation should not be considered a minimum
service life for the tire.





Nah, not so much hung up on the rule as much as the tires being safe to drive on normally. Also wouldn't hurt to use them as much as I can.

I made a mistake with this same car before, almost going 9 years on a set of OEM Goodyears Conquests. The tires were low mileage and looked ok- But I noticed quickly that the rode "squishy" which I knew was not good! Don't plan to let that happen again........

 

[CapriRacer]

Originally Posted by Paul_Siu
Checking the tire before every trip seems a bit of a pain. Is there a time when you should start doing that like after the 7 year mark if it's not in a garage? If you car is parked outside underneath a car port with a roof and open side, it's still like the outside? Would there be things like UV blockers you can apply to the sidewall to retard the effect of the sun?

On edmund, I see the following quote:

Many automakers, including Ford, Nissan and Mercedes-Benz, tell owners to replace tires six years after their production date, regardless of tread life. Tire manufacturers such as Continental and Michelin say a tire can last up to 10 years provided you get annual tire inspections after the fifth year.

Paul


If you are trying to eke out the last bit of life out of a tire, then the inspection procedure should be started about a year before when it would normally be scheduled for the tires to be replaced due to age. The way I read this schedule is that if you live in AZ, TX, CA, NV, NM, or FL, we're talking 6 years (inspection would start at 5 years), and if you live in MN, WI, ND, ID, or MT, it's 10 years (inspection starts at 9 years) - with states in between being …. ah …. in between.

And the clock starts ticking when the tires were installed. Use the production date if you can't remember when that was.

So what about the quote from Edmunds? Since heat is such a strong factor in tire aging, it is literally impossible to give a single answer as to when tires should be removed because they are too old.

Car manufacturers can afford to be very conservative without being accused of trying to sell tires - so they are choosing to emphasize the lowest number.

Tire manufacturers have been accused of this even when they emphasize the higher number.

Further, the USTMA (US Tire Manufacturers Association) has said "...…USTMA is not aware of scientific or technical data that establishes or identifies a specific minimum or maximum service life for passenger and light truck tires. …..".

 

[mightymousetech]

Just looking at a tire does not tell you the full story. You wouldn't guess at the tire pressure just by looking at it, you use a proper pressure gauge. You really need a hardness meter and you can see exactly how the tires are degrading over time for your exact circumstances.

http://www.longacreracing.com/products.aspx?itemid=1618&pagetitle=Durometers

 

[nobb]

Originally Posted by Lubener
If there's no cracking, I would and do use them. The six year rule was thought up by tire makers wanting to sell tires.


I agree with this. Unless they are crazy old like 15 years+, brand name tires have alot more safety factor in them than most people here are giving credit for.

I feel in the last 10 years there's been a big marketing push about keeping tires only for 6 years, or the general fear mongering that below 7C you must change over to snow tires. While there's some truths to these statements, it's also causing alot of unnecessary and impractical fear mongering.

 

[samven]

Last year I replaced the original tires on my 2003 Ram 1500 with 58000 miles on them and they looked fine but being 16 years old I decided I could not go by looks anymore.
They were Goodyear Wranglers and had never given me any trouble, the guy at the shop could not believe how old they were and did not believe me until he checked the date code. When he removed them they were full of rubber dust, allot of rubber dust. I dont know if it was due to UV break down or just dry rot from the inside out but it woke me up to not trusting just what I can see. If I was tempted to keep tires long beyond a normal life span I might have them dismounted to have a look at the inside just in case.

 

[zzyzzx]

The 7 year rule doesn't apply to Michigan. It's for people who park outside in the desert.

 

[daves87rs]

Originally Posted by zzyzzx
The 7 year rule doesn't apply to Michigan. It's for people who park outside in the desert.



Yep....tires usually die by pothole here.....

 

[mightymousetech]

Originally Posted by nobb
Originally Posted by Lubener
If there's no cracking, I would and do use them. The six year rule was thought up by tire makers wanting to sell tires.


I agree with this. Unless they are crazy old like 15 years+, brand name tires have alot more safety factor in them than most people here are giving credit for.

I feel in the last 10 years there's been a big marketing push about keeping tires only for 6 years, or the general fear mongering that below 7C you must change over to snow tires. While there's some truths to these statements, it's also causing alot of unnecessary and impractical fear mongering.


I think it also really depends on how much of the performance of the tire you use. If you only [censored] along using 10% of the available grip, you may never notice the drop in grip. But those of us that push the tires, it is very noticeable. My MPSS on my 135i are now 4 years old, and I can already feel them loosing grip. The traction control light will now appear in second gear under hard acceleration. That would never happen when they were fresh. Looks like I will be replacing them this summer for a set of PS4S. It is also good to know the limits of your tires so you know how it will handle emergency situations. Will probably finally buy a durometer to I can monitor the aging of the tires.