Agreed, Depending whether it’s Harley Davidson or Indian, if it’s not one thing it’s another with respect to things here and there.
The Harley-Davidson 2021 "Live" Virtual Product Launch
- Thread starter DuckRyder
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I think it is good that the MoCo is branching out a bit, but think they have made missteps with both the Live Wire and Pan America IMO...
The Live Wire is simply too expensive.
The Pan America could be a hit, but its a market entry into a shrinking segment while the Middleweight ADV bike seems to be the growing segment. This bike HAS to be aggressively priced if its going to be a success no mater how good it is...
also, the 2021 line thins the bottom end of the range while the top lives on, this is precisely the wrong choice IMO...
there is stuff in the line that interest me, but not enough to compel me to go into a dealer (in spite of 2 calling in the last week, Note to Great South, leave a message bud, i know your number).
Indian doesn't interest me, Ducati, Triumph do... and they cost less... for the ones that do. Harley needed something to get people like me off the fence, whatever it might be.
Don't get me wrong, I love the 14 103b, but that ain't helping them today other than an occasion part sale....
The Live Wire is simply too expensive.
The Pan America could be a hit, but its a market entry into a shrinking segment while the Middleweight ADV bike seems to be the growing segment. This bike HAS to be aggressively priced if its going to be a success no mater how good it is...
also, the 2021 line thins the bottom end of the range while the top lives on, this is precisely the wrong choice IMO...
there is stuff in the line that interest me, but not enough to compel me to go into a dealer (in spite of 2 calling in the last week, Note to Great South, leave a message bud, i know your number).
Indian doesn't interest me, Ducati, Triumph do... and they cost less... for the ones that do. Harley needed something to get people like me off the fence, whatever it might be.
Don't get me wrong, I love the 14 103b, but that ain't helping them today other than an occasion part sale....
They have a ways to go ... https://www.statista.com/statistics/252210/market-share-of-major-motorcycle-manufacturers-in-the-us/
Take that with a grain of salt, Harley sales are dropping and Indians are rising.
Still cant change facts. Loose facts at that, easy to throw around but no substance. Been hearing it for decades and decades, first the failed Victory lineup, out of business and .. . here we are almost a decade later with not much dent into their Harley killer Indian.
Polaris is an international conglomerate and motorcycles, boats, atvs, the Slingshot are just a 1/3rd of their business. So when you hear sales are up, make sure to look at their USA motorcycle sales, which is almost impossible with Polaris because they throw other vehicles in there as well, like the Slingshot when popular was showing big leaps in sales numbers for motorcycles.
Internationally yes, sales are up for Polaris, but Polaris is much bigger then Harley with deep pockets and can develop and stamp out look a like cheap bikes to the low income foreign countries and make their sales go up.
All good, just pointing out USA facts with motorcycle market share which Indian is failing like Victory did in stealing from Harley. No more comments on this from me, really try not to muddy up peoples threads.
Ok, on topic =
I agree with the OP and others, I dont see anything compelling to make me want a new bike then the 14 Road King I own. But that goes for any brand. Im just not seeing stuff I like and I too HATE the lack of imagination with Harleys choice of "safe" colors. I HATE the fact that soooo many of their bikes (not much different then the car market) are loaded with crap I dont want. (why I own a road king BTW)
Im just not going to want to lay out up to $23,000 for a bike that I am not in love with. With my 14 Road King, it was instant love, heck, I was in the mountains of TN on vacation, loved this bike so much I left my Yamaha that my wife and I took up there on vacation at the Harley dealer and road home on our last day of vacation on the Harley, We were never on a Harley before and we pulled out of the dealer on a brand new Road King in the pouring rain no less traveled in the rain through TN and NC, sun came out in SC.
I look in the dealers NOW and darn it, the colors all safe, also I know the blacked out look is in and I think it looks great but I dont want it, reminds me of painted metal and hell, if I am going to spend over $20,000 on a bike, Im not going to want to see painted metal that will water stain and worse. Crap Harley, give me a bike I can fall in love with, not the same old safe boring colors (as you can see by my photo) Give me bright yellow with CHROME or something and a REAL ignition key, not a FOB, I dont know, but step out of the box.
This past August in Cashiers NC on the way to Pigeon Forge Tennessee, almost every year for almost a decade up there, love it.
I need some bike maker to motivate me to change, this bike, never needed a repair, so far, fingers crossed.
Below someplace, forgot, across the way from Clingmans Dome, I think on Roaring Forks Motor Parkway...
(I like bright colors)
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Years back when Buell was Harley's hope for luring younger riders into the Harley fold, they looked to be heading in the right direction. Their sport bikes sold good, and even the Ulysses was moving towards uncharted waters for the company. Now 20 or so years later, they come out with a warmed over version of what they already had. Kinda looks the same with a few minor changes. About the same motor, but with new and improved square tool boxes hung on the sides. Their focus customer market wasn't even born when theses were on the road years ago. How does that saying go, "Everything old is new again".,,,
Before we moved to SC and before I rode. I remember sitting on a large Buell, had my daughter jump on the back in the shoowroom back on Long Island where we lived. I was hooked on the thought of a motorcycle from that moment on, once in SC 14 years ago, Buell was gone and bought my first bike which was a Suzuki C50, 2ish years later moved up to a Yamaha Vstar 1300 tourer, then onto the RK in 14 or 15. I really liked that Buell their largest one, cant remember the model.
Loose facts... Victory didn’t fail. The decision was made to focus on the Indian brand.
Back to the topic at hand, going to a cable clutch saves money, said it once, said it twice, now said it a third time.
Back to the topic at hand, going to a cable clutch saves money, said it once, said it twice, now said it a third time.
*LOL* Politics NOT allowed in BITOG and ^^ that sounds like something a politician would say. (translated,Victory, such a failure after more then a decade or is is two?, investors revolting, so they bought another name and tried all over)
I agree on the cable clutch, saves money for the manufacturer, I also prefer it = more simple, then again, I ride an air cooled bike, preferred over my last two water cooled ones = More simple. I prefer a standard key = more simple, though I suspect it might actually cost more for a standard key then a key fob now*L*
However if it was more then just a recreational vehicle I might feel differently, but in the way I use it, I just want to start it and go and be reliable.
Not sure if I will ever have a new bike again or even how long I will keep this one or possibly even stop riding, a lot of my free time has been replaced by my (wifes) boat, then I look at the photo above about our yearly ride into the mountains and we always have a great time and gives me the ich to jump on it the next warm day.
Neither of the above would stop me from buying it, though I am way less against water cooling then having a hydraulic clutch.
I think they have something with the Livewire but they have to get the cost down, even that adventure bike, maybe. Actually motorcycles to me in general are in a tough spot. Public could care less and sales keep going down among the touring bikes and manufacturing costs are the same and higher. You have company shareholders that want to see profits at ANY cost, even quality.
Young people could care less about riding and the price of these bikes Indian, BMW, Harley touring are retarted, seals the deal that they will never ride OR move up from a pocket rocket or similar. Meaning a bike that they may want to take on an adventurous vacation with friends.
You will ALWAYS see a low end market in other countries where people cant afford a car or truck but here in the USA we ride bikes that cost the same, much of that is because of our incredible highway system which many other countries do not have.
Its not just bikes, a lot of old time "passions" are now outdated to the young who rather spend their money on something else.
In this new "world" of a mentality of people being protected from themselves, I wouldn't be surprised in some future decade to see bikes banned from certain roads (interstates) that Washington has control over and highway funds to pressure states if bikes fall into such a really low minority.
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Oh it failed...
if it was succeeding the decision "focus" on Indian would not have been made... though i do have to admit "Vegas Eight Ball" is a cool name for a motorcycle...
For 21's
I think the flip flop color is kinda cool, in a 95 mustang cobra kind of way, but i think its only available on the CVOs? CVOs are a little gaudy for me, I'd probably go "special" if i was going touring bike... that heavy metallic candy red "Hot rod red" or something like that was cool...
I'm kinda partial to red sunglow and blackened cayenne too but those are gone too...
Having two irons in the fire is more work than keeping one really hot.
^^ Snake Venom would be an interesting color to see for me. Outdoors as you have to watch indoor lighting colors.
This whole video is nice and they talk about color, color color and lots and lots of nice bright colors in the video from past years but none offered in current models for me anyway. I do know I am "outside the box" (wife agrees for sure)
Yeah CVO but never say never but that would never be an option for me.
This whole video is nice and they talk about color, color color and lots and lots of nice bright colors in the video from past years but none offered in current models for me anyway. I do know I am "outside the box" (wife agrees for sure)
Yeah CVO but never say never but that would never be an option for me.
My 14 Ultra had 2 hydraulic clutch recalls for rebuilds.
I wish Harley Davidson (and Indian for that matter) great sales and growth for 2021. But I'm not excited for the newer released 2021 H-D models video either. No surprise to me if H-D discontinues the Live Wire or any electric two wheeler at this point in the game. And yep, younger folks are not jumping on the H-D train "yet" with the newer sport make or touring models (or me for that matter). Tuff time for The Motor Company.
I didn't realize they switched back to the tried and true clutch cable either? My 16 FLHTK Ultra Limited has never given me issues from the get go or has it over-heated? Never a problem finding the friction zone or noticing any slipping. Nice informative thread here.
I didn't realize they switched back to the tried and true clutch cable either? My 16 FLHTK Ultra Limited has never given me issues from the get go or has it over-heated? Never a problem finding the friction zone or noticing any slipping. Nice informative thread here.
At this point in the game, I don't think Harley is going to drop the Livewire. They've already commited a production line, and development budget for the bike. Plus that's what they are pinning their future on selling to the up and coming riders who don't want a gas motorcycle. They can make them sportier,and faster if they want. The big issue is distance that the bike can travel before needing a recharge. Right now under the best case scenario, your lookin at 145 miles. If you could buy the bike for less then 10k, they might convince more riders to sign on the dotted line. But at $29,777, you can buy a competitions bike for alot less. There lies the problem. As far as the hydraulic clutch goes, I've never ridden a bike with one so I can't say I would miss it. I can say that in my years of driving cars and motorcycles I've found , the simpler you can make something the less problems you will have with it. Would you buy a pair of the most comfortable shoes in the world, if they only lasted a month?.,,
Hermann
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Was so happy that my new BMW cycle has a cable actuated clutch. It has a nice feel and after 3K it has not needed an adjustment. Don't know if I am a fan of slipper clutches though. Been watching the 2021 Harley roll out, it is slow. I wonder if the OVID is causing parts supply issues.
Well Harley posts a $96 million loss, which would be worldwide since it is global company. By my information, Indian motorcycles posted a small sales gain worldwide, albeit being down some in the USA but up in Canada.
They’re gonna need more than a cable actuated clutch to get out of this one with respect to the next few years . ADV bikes are going to the midsize displacement and they’re going all in with a big one that is asked to outshine all the established guys that already know how to do it.
They’re gonna need more than a cable actuated clutch to get out of this one with respect to the next few years . ADV bikes are going to the midsize displacement and they’re going all in with a big one that is asked to outshine all the established guys that already know how to do it.
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