The Greenest Cars from well-to-junkyard (ACEEE)

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blackman777

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According to the ACEEE's website greenercars.org, even with the damage caused by making & recycling Nickle or Lithium batteries, the complete lifecycle of hybrid cars still rank them as "cleaner" than conventional cars:

SCORE (out of 100 where 100== no pollution)
58 Prius C
57 Fit EV
55 Prius & Civic hybrid
54 Insight hybrid
53 Jetta hybrid & Smart for 2 (nonhybrid) & Scion IQ (nonhybrid)
52 Focus EV & Prius V
51 Fusion hybrid & Spark (nonhybrid)
50 Fiat 500 (nonhybrid) & Fiesta (nonhybrid) & Yaris (nonhybrid)
49 Mini Cooper (nonhybrid) & Mazda2 (nonhybrid) & Sonic (nonhybrid) & Focus (nonhybrid) & Veloster (nonhybrid) & Cruze Eco (nonhybrid) & Sonic (nonhybrid)


I like both my hybrids: I don't like the 5 to 10,000 premium when new, but I liked getting them used for half off, and now I'm getting ~60 MPG with their teeny-tiny 1.0 and 1.3 liter engines
 
Link to article?

Question: What is the lifecycle? 150kmiles, 200k, 250k?

Flat out numbers rather than relative might make more sense. IOW tons of emissions to make, then emissions per mile, then emissions to scrap. A score of 100 is nice, but if the diff between 10th place and 90th place was only a few tons... No units means it's all relative.

Drove my Jetta today, as it was warm(er); is nice to get back into a small car with lots of mpg.
 
Greenercars.org

I don't know. The website says it calculates energy usage from point of creation to final disposal but not how long in between. They probably assume 300,000 miles which is pretty standard for a gasoline car.
 
The data consists of dozens of numbers for pollutants, energy used during manufacture, transportation costs of raw materials, oil, coal, electricity

It's easier to just boil it down to a single "green score". If you buy the annual book, it will hold all the other data and calculations.
 
Meanest Cars

Hmm, they list F350 FFV under this. While I agree that E85 is a sham, I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that a majority of F350's are probably working trucks, not commuter cars.
 
When they calculate these numbers they use the U.S. mix or the typical fuel. For EVs that means primarily coal with NG and hydro and nuclear and "other" mixed-in. For flex fuel cars it would be gasoline with 10% ethanol. Very few Americans have access to run the E85% (Just an educated guess)
 
When I was driving the Foothill Interstste and looked over the L.A. Valley and nearby cities (Glendale, Burbank, Padadena), I noticed I could see black air.

We're not supposed to see air. This greenercar list has been published since the 90s (before hybrids existed). The group is trying to encourage people to drive more clean cars, including SULEV or PZEV gasoline or diesel cars. It isn't propaganda
 
Originally Posted By: blackman777
When I was driving the Foothill Interstste and looked over the L.A. Valley and nearby cities (Glendale, Burbank, Padadena), I noticed I could see black air.

We're not supposed to see air.


Being a California native, I grew up with the motto, "Don't trust air you can't see"!
 
My 2011 Ford Crown Vic gives me 29-30 MPG's highway! All that comfort & crash protection also. You can keep your "Green Cars." LOL
 
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Gonna predict some butt-hurt replies to this
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Seriously, I don't get why some people have such a problem with hybrids. Don't like them? Don't drive them. End.
 
My Honda hybrid is basically a gasoline car with 10hp motor added... it ain't a big change.

I don't see Ford Vic but the cleanest large car is a BMW with 42% greenscore. Even the "dirty" diesel got 46%
 
I don't care how careful they are in manufacturing, it's always significantly worse for the environment to buy a new Prius than it is to slap a new engine and paint job in an old Geo.

I really can't understand the purpose of these fancy new hybrids. You might buy one to save the environment, but you'd be much farther ahead using a car that already existed. Or you could buy one to save money on fuel...but you aren't going to save money by buying any new car.

I don't have a "problem" with them, I just think they are silly. I bet cost per mile, and emissions per mile, are better on my 9 year old diesel truck with 194,000 miles, than a new Prius.
 
CR-Z hybrid: two seats, up to 39mpg freeway

Mazda3 Skyactiv: has a back seat, up to 41 mpg freeway.

I doubt the CR-Z is a better handling car. Acceleration is roughly the same give or take a tenth.

But let's make it worse: Honda CRX hf, up to 57 mpg freeway.

Seems like this was the only Honda Hybrid that really worked:
insighth.jpg
 
Here is my thought on hybrids.

I saw a Chevy volt with a window sticker of about $42,500. For ease of explanation lets just say it was $40,000. A good car can be bought for about $20,000 or much less. But again lets use 50% for ease of explanation.

Now take the difference of $40,000 and $20,000. Does anyone know how many gallons of gas can be bought for $20,000? At say $3.21 a gallon (current national average) that's about 6230 gallons of fuel. Say the thing gets 50 mpg.. It would have to be driven 311,526 miles before it pays for itself. Assuming it has no mechanical issues (extra $$$) along the way..

If the person drives 15,000 per year.. that's about 20 years. 20 years before it pays for itself.
 
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Originally Posted By: dlundblad
Now take the difference of $40,000 and $20,000.

(1) The Volt is really an unlimited range EV..... like an EV1 or Leaf with a generator attached, to keep the battery fully charged.

(2) Like the idiots who claimed a Hummer is greener than an EV, you deliberately twisted the facts to get the conclusion desired. BUT both the Prius C and Insight Hybrids cost just $20,000.

That means there's NO price differential in your example.
 
Originally Posted By: blackman777
Originally Posted By: dlundblad
Now take the difference of $40,000 and $20,000.

(1) The Volt is really an unlimited range EV..... like an EV1 or Leaf with a generator attached, to keep the battery fully charged.

(2) Like the idiots who claimed a Hummer is greener than an EV, you deliberately twisted the facts to get the conclusion desired. BUT both the Prius C and Insight Hybrids cost just $20,000.

That means there's NO price differential in your example.






I didn't twist any facts. I referenced a Volt, which my facts supported.

*You are correct though. My math doesn't work with a Prius.. I'm glad to see you can count.
 
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Originally Posted By: blackman777

BUT both the Prius C and Insight Hybrids cost just $20,000.

How much does an equivalent non hybrid cost? $12,000? $14,000? Even at $14k the cost difference will buy you nearly 2,000 gallons of gas...
 
Well I could say, "The Tourareg only get 25mpg, while Toyota SUVs get 35mpg, therefore diesels don't save fuel," but doing so would be an example of intellectual dishonesty. It's only one datapoint.

Hybrids:
The Prius C is basically a Yaris, and the Insight has no equivalent (it's a unique teardrop body). The Yaris is base price of 15,000 if I recall correctly, so the hybridization has a $5000 premium.
 
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