The Great Redline Amsoil comparison

[Spooner]

Sorry for the sappy "headline style" Subject line, but thought it would be interesting to hear some more thoughts on the two oils. I know they are higher priced and may not be API certified, and may fall into the catagory of "designer label oils". It is my opinion (so far) that they are both excellent oils, so no mudslinging please. My question is how do they really stack up against each other in UOA's or real world driving. Is one clearly better than the other or is it just a coin toss? Probably looking at the 5w-30 or 5w-40.
I have the VW Passat turbo 1.8T with a small capacity sump, so I want an oil that will hold up and perform for daily driving and some "spirited" road trips, keep the turbo in uncoked condition, go a little longer in oil changes and still help to insure as long engine life as I can get.

 

[VeeDubb]

quote:

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I have the VW Passat turbo 1.8T with a small capacity sump, so I want an oil that will hold up and perform for daily driving and some "spirited" road trips, keep the turbo in uncoked condition, go a little longer in oil changes and still help to insure as long engine life as I can get. [/QB]

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With the 3.7 sump and turbo, I wouldn't "go a little longer on the oil changes". I'd do 5k changes unless it's 95% hwy. Somebody was doing 15k changes or so with Mobil 1 in a Jetta, but the 1.8 in Jettas have a 4.6 quart sump.

I'm still not clear on why you want to split hairs with Amsoil and Redline given that you don't race and drive your car in an abusive way. If I was pushing 5000 rpms 5 times a day, then maybe I'd worry whether Redline is "better" or "worse" than Amsoil but you would probably be fine even with Mobil 1. Just pick one and move on. Your car will be fine.

 

[Jeffrey Behr]

I've loved Red Line gear oils since I started using MTL in an '87 Mustang that I was wearing out on racetracks during open-track events about 15 days per year. The MTL allowed the transmission, a Borg T-5, to shift correctly and reliably.

My Porsche Cayenne Turbo is the 1st vehicle in which I'll be using RL engine oil; I've been using M1 in everything since '87. Amsoil may be great too but I love Red Line, and its specs, especially the HTHS rating of the 5W-40, are better than everything else I looked at (but I never considered Amsoil).

 

[bearclaw]

I've got a Saab turbo, and I've been about the most conflicted guy on the planet since I started reading this forum!

I've been using M1 10W-30 for years, but as a result of what I've read here, I switched to Amsoil, then NEO, and finally to Redline 5W-40. I swear that's where I'm staying...for now.

Honestly, I think the post above is correct, any of the mentioned brands would be fine. I believe I would go with the Redline 5W-40, or the Amsoil 2K 0W-30, it's a toss up. I live in the Pac.NW too, and about all the Amsoil oils are available at GI Joe's, BTW. Let me know if you find Redline 5W-40 locally, B&B Auto Parts is a dealer but doesn't have that grade.

 

[buster]

Redline is a better built oil. Amsoil and Mobil 1 are the same, PAO with esters. Redline and oils like Synergyn are Polyolester based. Amsoil used to be more diester based but has followed Mobil's PAO approach, which is cost effective and great for daily drivers. If you drive hard and want the best protection, Redline is the best IMO. I know we have seen some poor UOA's with RL, but you have to remember that RL is not a typical oil and cleans very well.

Amsoil is a good oil but when looking at ALL UOA's and VOA's, they are on par with Mobil 1. They are a very good oil, as is Mobil 1, but the difference right now are barely noticable. In fact, Amsoil's formulations IMO are behind Mobil's SS technology. We are also seeing now Amsoil adding more Boron to their oils. I think their priorities are different from an oil like Redline, which excells under extremem racing. That is the opinion I have at the moment of the two oils based on the 100's off UOA's we have seen here so far.

And don't believe what you read on 99% of Amsoil's dealer webpages. 4 ball wear tests and other claims need to be researched further. Oils like Redline don't resort to those tactics bc they don't have to. The racing communitee is well aware of RL. A high quality product will sell itself and establish it's reputation out in the field, not on a 4 Ball wear graph.

[ February 07, 2004, 07:27 PM: Message edited by: buster ]

 

[Spector]

quote:

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Originally posted by buster:
Amsoil is a good oil but when looking at ALL UOA's and VOA's, they are on par with Mobil 1.

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Hmmm, where or where are all those great Redline UOA. Maybe a few when the supporters are not either defending it for cleaning up after other oils or the oil not being able to be tested or the driver really pushes it hard or some other excuse?

High priced and if you really push it maybe Redline, in 100,000 miles it doesn't make a hill of beans difference which one you use IMO!

 

[JohnBrowning]

I am a Redline fan! With that said I would not push a small sump like your for extended drains!!! I would be changeing every 5000 miles. With that short of an interval all of the good synthetics Redline, Amsoil, Mobil 1, Delvac 1, Motul 300V etc will all deliver excellent protection!!

I think that Redlines ATF's and Gear Lubes are leaps and bounds better then anything their competion has to offer. IF you have to choose use a cheaper synthetic like M1 and use their gear lubes in your diff's and transaxle!

If on the other hand you want to split hairs like a lot of do on this site UOA is the only way to find out what is going to work best. Not all applications going to like the same oil reguardless of how well built it is!

P.S. At least try Redline 5W40! I have not done a UOA on it yet but my engine runs very smooth and has not had any problems even at -18F.

 

[buster]

quote:

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Hmmm, where or where are all those great Redline UOA. Maybe a few when the supporters are not either defending it for cleaning up after other oils or the oil not being able to be tested or the driver really pushes it hard or some other excuse?

High priced and if you really push it maybe Redline, in 100,000 miles it doesn't make a hill of beans difference which one you use IMO!

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Well, I can't argue with your answer. On paper Redline looks excellent and we've been told that not all the wear that shows up in a UOA is wear with Redline. M1/Amsoil put up excellent #'s but when you look at the additives in RL, it's hard to turn away from it. Only thing I could think of that might be bad with RL are the "quality" of additives they use. Quantity is their as we see with ZDDP/Moly but what is the quality of those additives?

[ February 07, 2004, 10:46 PM: Message edited by: buster ]

 

[JohnBrowning]

I have an excellent UOA of Redline C+ATF in the archive! I am working on generateing some more UOA good or bad for it as well. When you tear down an engine, transaxle or diff and examine each piece UOA is really not needed. I am still learning how to read UOA and how to use it as a maintence tool. I do not think anyone really defends it any wear near as ardently as M1 users defend M1! At least Redline users do not go around claiming other oils cause engines to blow up!!

Now some of use have pointed out that it usualy takes 2-3 OCI with Redline before you can realy see how it is behaveing in the application. THe very high amounts of additives combined with it's high concentration of esters causes a cleaning action and possable a form of isopheresis(sp) of soft metals like lead, copper and tin! If it takes more then one one run to see how it is behaveing what good is a single UOA of it???? It seems silly to compare it to an oil that lacks it's ability to clean in situ!

I thing an oils propensity to leave deposits is just as important as it's UOA. Low wear numbers are only part of the game!! An oil that gives the lowest possable wear numbers might not be the best possable oil. What good is low wear if the engine is dirty and getting dirtier?

 

[Spector]

quote:

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Originally posted by JohnBrowning:
What good is low wear if the engine is dirty and getting dirtier?

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Cheez, I think I would take this any day. Why, every once in a while do an RX and keep on truckin. Wear is the key for very long life if you keep it reasonably clean. What good is clean if it starts pushing oil and needs a rebuild due to higher wear?

They are tons of examples of 200,000 plus engines on dino and other synthetics. I do not believe I have seen one using RedLine. Any posted in that thread on engines over 150,000 on this board, I don't think so. Guess the drivers using Redline just redline them so often that they blow! Gotta be the driver not the oil.

[ February 08, 2004, 11:05 AM: Message edited by: Spector ]

 

[JohnBrowning]

Well, THat 150,000 mile thread asked who has 150,000 mile or more. It did not ask who has ever exceeded 150,000 miles. Seeing how both of my Daily drivers are not yet to that millage I do not qualify to post. I have some vechiles in winter storage that have grossly exceeded that millage but they are not daily drivers any more just weekend off road warriors! It is true that I have also never used Redline exclusivly for 150,000-300,000 miles. Heck I do not even use the same brand that long!!!

When I am doen doing my two test runs with Redline I will probably not use it any more. I hate mail ordering oil!!! Paying shiping on something like oil just bugs me!!

P.S. 2500 more miles and we can see how my UOA turns out. I was doing 60MPH in 2nd gear today!