Denmark, Netherlands To Lead Ukraine F-16 Training | Aviation Week Network
Denmark and the Netherlands will lead a group effort to train Ukrainian pilots on Lockheed Martin F-16s following a green light from the U.S.
aviationweek.com
The F-16 is in the news lately. Here is one loaded for bear.
- Thread starter Snagglefoot
- Start date
aviationweek.com
I suspect pretty much any fighter pilot would volunteer, I suspect it's the same on the other side
That’s good to know. You’re a very honorable person, military vet and patriot.
I‘m 100% in favor of helping Ukraine.
The only problem I have is with dumb folks and law makers here in the USA thinking how easy it is to equip Ukraine with the F-16 and everything will go as planned. They don’t realize the amount of training needed to become fully proficient as a pilot or maintainers of various specialized roles needed to repair / keep an F-16 combat ready.
I will be the first to say this here on BITOG:
Ukraine needs the same help and support getting their F-16 ready to fight a war as USA helped Israel when they desperately needed the F-4 Phantom.
Yes, different aircraft and different technologies….. but USA no doubt did everything to make Israel’s F-4 program a success. Let’s not forget all the F-15 and F-16 fighters in Israel for the past 40 years….. they needed our support.
Basically no half ass effort on our country’s part if we do decide to equip Ukraine with the F-16.
Last edited:
Good to see that Ukraine will finally get the aircraft its been asking for for the past year.
Nobody in the West knows as well as the Ukrainians do what they can use and where they can base it.
The fact that the Russians hate the idea should tell us what a game changer the F-16 will prove to be.
You'll note that Putin has stopped making nuclear threats, maybe since Sullivan said for the record that any such action would bring NATO into the war and that the conventional response from the West would be catastrophic for Russia.
Nobody in the West knows as well as the Ukrainians do what they can use and where they can base it.
The fact that the Russians hate the idea should tell us what a game changer the F-16 will prove to be.
You'll note that Putin has stopped making nuclear threats, maybe since Sullivan said for the record that any such action would bring NATO into the war and that the conventional response from the West would be catastrophic for Russia.
An experienced Mig pilot will be able to safely fly the F-16 in no time. It's an incredibly easy aircraft to fly.
Employing it effectively in combat is another matter. I hope they only use experienced fighter pilots, give them plenty of sim time in the correct model, and give them enough flight time for them to be proficient. Then put them through a Red Flag exercise specifically designed to emulate the scenario they would face in combat.
Employing it effectively in combat is another matter. I hope they only use experienced fighter pilots, give them plenty of sim time in the correct model, and give them enough flight time for them to be proficient. Then put them through a Red Flag exercise specifically designed to emulate the scenario they would face in combat.
Who thinks that?
Anyone involved in the conversation and decision making process is very well aware of the FACTS.
Ukrainians are very well aware of what F16 needs, can do etc. The huge number of UKR officers, even before the invasion last February, went through various US military schools, training, etc. They understand how our training, and procurement process works.
Their pilots are currently foremost experts in a combat environment. They are the only air force that has 1 on 1 experience against other air force, etc, etc. While piloting F16 requires some training for pilots operating MIG, one thing is to train cadets and another very experienced pilot. And, training is more or less already finished.
Regular airfields are not in use for quite some time. They are constantly moving airplanes around, operating from improvised airfields etc.
Hopefully everything goes as planned.
Nothing goes as planned in situations like this.
That just means USA needs to spend more money, time, organization and subject matter experts to make this effort a success.
Like I said before…… No half ass effort on our country’s part.
There are no half efforts. Subject matter experts are driving EVERYTHING related to equipment, logistics, etc. Anyone who set at any table in Pentagon and NSC understands that.
TV, internet, etc. do not drive those conversations. And that is a widely accepted misconception that somehow President or some political appointee will decide what operational execution is. That is not how it works.
My point is that regardless of how much money you put into it, regardless of what kind of experts you put to resolve this issue, in situations like this, NOTHING goes per plan, or plan B or plan C.
That's apparently one of the well-reported downsides to the F-16 - that the low intake can be problematic if there's foreign object debris and it's probably not a good idea with improvised gravel or dirt runways.
Yes, FOD is a serious issue. I was in talks with Croatian Air Force about their decision to go Rafale, and FOD was one of the things they stuck to. I think they still preferred F16 over Rafale bcs. operational costs, complexity etc., but politics decided.
There is no perfect solution. The question is, what are the advantages and disadvantages? @Astro14 had several key points: logistics, maintenance, know-how, and spare parts across Europe.
Which means F-16 are not an option unless stationed in another country
They are. But it will require a bit more attention. The biggest issue with that is that very clean roads etc. draw attention.
F16s are regularly practicing operations from two-lane roads etc.
On the other hand, they are small, which is also a big advantage.
I've heard some claims that the legacy Hornet might have been a better choice, but for the availability and proximity of similar users who might be able to aid Ukraine. There are quite a few of those stored at the Davis-Monthan boneyard.
I'm wondering what the plan is to keep the F-16 flying for Ukraine.
I suppose they can take off from a long and straight enough road. I've seen the Thunderbirds do relatively short takeoffs at air shows and they don't really need a lot of width. They would just need a road without overhead obstacles like trees of wires over the road surface.
There was a myth that the US Interstate Highway system was built with improvised aircraft use in mind.
Operation Nickel Grass - Wikipedia
No half ass effort if we get involved. No pathetic Washington puppet show.
Washington puppet show = FAILURE
Fun Fact:
I got the same birth date as Nixon.
Last edited:
