The F-16 is in the news lately. Here is one loaded for bear.

[Astro14]

So that good huh? Wow.

Yeah. That good. It’s why the Russians and Chinese are so desperate to build an equal, 30 years after we started building it.

 

[weaponoffreedom]

Yeah. That good. It’s why the Russians and Chinese are so desperate to build an equal, 30 years after we started building it.

I remember years ago, seeing them, among others flying over Las Vegas. I think back then, the rules might have been a bit laxed for AGL cruising in populated areas such as the strip. Maybe 95, 96 ish.

 

[y_p_w]

Understand, I have never said that the F-16 is superior in general, because that is obviously not the case. But "best" in my mind must be proven, and until the combination of Raptor and pilot, go up against are real adversary, My vote goes to the Eagle.

It's been done before under fairly close to real world conditions. Obviously they're not firing real missiles at each other, but just because everyone gets back doesn't mean it's a worthless exercise.

 

[The_Eric]

ok, but what i am saying is.....are we really that much ahead?

disagreed, by in large, discipline is the deciding factor, and that is not found commonly in our country

Many people think that we, the USA, were the great "winner" of WW2, and to a point that is true. But the reason was manufacturing, both in our part and Russia's. Sure the Tiger was the best tank on the field, but they still lost to the Russians, why? Becuase for every one Tigers there were 10 T-34's

A joke amongst Astronauts:

"If you want to be an Astronaut kid.......learn to speak Russian"

Why is that?

For the last 15 years or so, the vast vast majority of freight and personnel sent into space for the ISS, was from KAZ, on Soyuz rockets which have remained largely unchanged for decades.

Worked a little? Huge understatement.

To edyvw's point about education and the military, as well as your point about discipline - you absolutely need both! The military isn't just a club which is wielded against the enemy. Without a good primary education, we would have less and less people who are able to innovate, create and change everything from gear, tactics, weapons and machinery. It takes some seriously educated people to do what our military does. Yes, the private sector does do a lot of development in conjunction with the military, but so do the men and women serving. Not all of those in the services are infantry. Lastly don't overlook that promotions are there for a reason. Dumb people will never rise to the senior ranks.

 

[weaponoffreedom]

Dumb people will never rise to the senior ranks.

I am not so sure of that.

At the core, I think our military is much weaker than it was 20 years ago, and the gap between us and our adversaries is much smaller than it was, thats is what I am saying.

If more people would admit this, it would be less of a problem. I think the "America the Great" thing can only last so long.

 

[The_Eric]

I am not so sure of that.

At the core, I think our military is much weaker than it was 20 years ago, and the gap between us and our adversaries is much smaller than it was, thats is what I am saying.

If more people would admit this, it would be less of a problem. I think the "America the Great" thing can only last so long.

Ok, so you're probably right that dumb people probably do ascend the ranks, but I'm pretty certain they're fewer and farther between than the qualified ones.

As to your other points, that's one of the reasons it's really important to keep education central in our country.

 

[edyvw]

I am not so sure of that.

At the core, I think our military is much weaker than it was 20 years ago, and the gap between us and our adversaries is much smaller than it was, thats is what I am saying.

If more people would admit this, it would be less of a problem. I think the "America the Great" thing can only last so long.

The military is not the gauge of America the Great. The Strenght of the US is, first and foremost, based on economic, educational etc. strengths. The big news lately is that the economy of the EU was 10% larger than the economy of the US in 2007. Today the US economy is 50% larger than the EU. Part of the reason is our doing, and part is abysmal policies by the EU, mostly led by Germany under the Markel administration.
The military is an instrument. Who are our adversaries? The only country that can come close to the US is China when it comes to the quantitative strength, NOT the qualitative strength of the military. Russia?
Let me give you an example:
Russia has the same amount of submitted patents as Austria, which has 16 times less population. But wait for it; this is actually a better comparison; it has the same amount of patents as Alabama, which has 30 times less population. ALABAMA!

 

[weaponoffreedom]

The military is not the gauge of America the Great. The Strenght of the US is, first and foremost, based on economic, educational etc. strengths. The big news lately is that the economy of the EU was 10% larger than the economy of the US in 2007. Today the US economy is 50% larger than the EU. Part of the reason is our doing, and part is abysmal policies by the EU, mostly led by Germany under the Markel administration.
The military is an instrument. Who are our adversaries? The only country that can come close to the US is China when it comes to the quantitative strength, NOT the qualitative strength of the military. Russia?
Let me give you an example:
Russia has the same amount of submitted patents as Austria, which has 16 times less population. But wait for it; this is actually a better comparison; it has the same amount of patents as Alabama, which has 30 times less population. ALABAMA!

I disagree. Without the the deterrence of our military, most is lost. America is great becasue the citizens make it so, and today, I dont see much greatness, I see weakness, and selfishness.

Patents? For what, stuff that is made in China? Or Taiwan

You seem to be talking about the past.

The real power is in the private sector, and what is our country full of these days? A bunch of liberals and kids who are butthurt that their college bill aint going to be free. Of course there is eceptions to this, but by in large, our citizens are weak and unwilling to work. That is where is starts.

Military recruiting is at an all time low. Our education systems wants to show drag queens instead of real science, and real history. Our citizenry is THE MOST out of shape of country of consequence. Our citizens pay one of the highest tax rates in the world.

Your turn.

 

[weaponoffreedom]

Ok, so you're probably right that dumb people probably do ascend the ranks, but I'm pretty certain they're fewer and farther between than the qualified ones.

Agreed. But when the grading curve is trash, you get trash. For example, Floyd Mayweather Jr......the best boxer in history right? Well I argue that if he was a boxer in the 70s, with Sugar Ray, Tommy Hearns, or Marvin Hagler, no one would know his name. Just becasue you are good in a sea of mediocre fighters, does not mean you are the best. I am just telling it like I see it. Another example is Lebrons Dream Team getting raped in the Olympics. Get it?

As to your other points, that's one of the reasons it's really important to keep education central in our country.

Agreed 1000%. And keep it proper, and truthful and sticking to real stuff, not drag queen dress code....... One thing I would like to see is a strengthened physical education system such as in the 80s with Arnold.

To fix a problem, you have to first accept that the issue exists.

 

[edyvw]

I disagree. Without the the deterrence of our military, most is lost. America is great becasue the citizens make it so, and today, I dont see much greatness, I see weakness, and selfishness.

Patents? For what, stuff that is made in China? Or Taiwan

You seem to be talking about the past.

The real power is in the private sector, and what is our country full of these days? A bunch of liberals and kids who are butthurt that their college bill aint going to be free. Of course there is eceptions to this, but by in large, our citizens are weak and unwilling to work. That is where is starts.

Military recruiting is at an all time low. Our education systems wants to show drag queens instead of real science, and real history. Our citizenry is THE MOST out of shape of country of consequence. Our citizens pay one of the highest tax rates in the world.

Your turn.

Patents? Patents are an indication of innovation. You are NOT power if you are not innovating! Period!
Private sector? Well, patents? The US is leading in innovation through the private sector. I mean, I am sorry, but I thought that was understood.
Military recruiting at a low time? Yes. It happens anytime you have a strong economy. The last huge influx of recruitment was in 2008-2010. It is actually very simple thing to find and understand.

As for other stuff, I do not want to get into "yelling at the cloud" discussions.

 

[y_p_w]

Ok, so you're probably right that dumb people probably do ascend the ranks, but I'm pretty certain they're fewer and farther between than the qualified ones.

As to your other points, that's one of the reasons it's really important to keep education central in our country.

Trying to stay away from the partisan politics (which I have seen here in this topic, but for how long?). However, one of the biggest issues is that officer promotions past a certain rank in the US military require a Presidential nomination (usually from a set of recommendations) and Senate confirmation. It's supposed to be pro forma, but isn't always. And it isn't now. That's as far as I'm going to go. Anyone is free to look up why promotions have been held up.

 

[weaponoffreedom]

You are NOT power if you are not innovating! Period!

Astronauts in recent years have had to rely on Russia to get into space, on old rocket tech. No innovation on our part required. Innovations on wind power for example has been a absolute failure in this country, even though there has been decades of prior experience in Europe. There is more to the story, such as the inclusion of needless regulation from those who know nothing about what they are regulating.

 

[Astro14]

Folks - this thread was about the F -16.

But it has turned into a proxy for various political arguments, so, it’s time to take a break.