The dangers of flush machines

[DeeAgeaux]

Originally Posted By: exranger06
Originally Posted By: DeeAgeaux

Also, do OEMs want transmissions and powertrains that last 1 million miles? Two?

Yes. That kind of reputation would sell a TON of cars.

Originally Posted By: DeeAgeaux
How hard would it be to sell cars?

See above.

Originally Posted By: DeeAgeaux
Only to superfulous people wanting to make fashion/class/power statements with their cars.

Which is just about everyone in this country...
Everyone wants the car that lasts a million miles, even though they're gonna trade it in at 30k anyway.



Not a Ton because you would need one every two or three generations.


Not everyone in this country is superfulous.

Maybe you are watching to much tv.

 

[Gary Allan]

No. WE all watched too much tv. Now we watch too much internet.

 

[NHHEMI]

On modern day vehicles, that no longer have a drain plug in the torque converter( dumbest idea EVER removing it ), the only way to get all the fluid out is to do a flush( machine or DIY in the driveway ). If you just drop the pan or use a drain plug it only removes part of the fluid. Sometimes not even half. The new fluid you add is contaminated the second the pump mixes it with the old. Waste of time and money IMO.

Unfortunately the only way to really do a tranny right these days(IMO)is to have it flushed and then drop the pan, to clean it and change the filter, then top back off. You just need to have a reputable shop do the work.

I would never let a place like Jiffy Lube or Wal-Mart change my oil so I sure as heck won't let them work on my tranny. That work is done at the dealer using atf I bring. If they screw it up they are responsible. If the tranny fails due to a flush( hasn't been a problem yet )my warranty will take care of it because the proof is there I took care of it.

I would never have the tranny in a 100K+ vehicle with a questionable maintenance history flushed however. That is asking for trouble. If done on a regular basis, and you also have the filter changed each time( or every othertime ), you are good.

 

[unDummy]

There are no dangers to a flush on a high mileage transmission.
The only dangers for any transmission is the owner and an ill-experienced quick lube tech.

Dealers are as bad as the hacks at jippylube.

 

[SteveSRT8]

NO WAY will a 'passive' machine damage your trans. The trans own pump does the work and the fluid path is exactly the same, including filter/screen.

Reverse flow or active flushes are insane for any trans and should be avoided. Also avoid the 'snake oil' additives many places want to add.

Where most people mess up is forgetting to occasionally change the trans filter(s).

 

[artificialist]

Many times when I have used an AT flush machine, I was ordered to add a bottle of ATF additive to put in bulk Dexron/Mercon. I have also read many posts questioning the effect of that stuff.

So it makes me wonder... Did people with good results have a transmission that only took Dexron/Mercon, and people with poor results need ATF+4, Honda Z1, or something like that?

 

[RF Overlord]

Originally Posted By: Big Jim
This post is full of misinformation.
Agreed.
Quote:
I don't know the motivation of the person that published that B*S*, but you can tell him to fold it sideways (with sharp edges) and stuff it where the sun don't shine. It is that useless.
Agree again.

I like this line from the article: "And if they do say the factory recommends it, they are flat out lying to you."
The factory service manual for my Mercury Marauder specifically states that the PROPER way to change the fluid it to use a fluid exchange machine.

The person who whote that article is either grossly mis-informed or is an imbecile with an ax to grind.

 

[VNTS]

In general what is your cut off point before you would recommend against flushing, ie what is high mileage. I assume you do perform a pan drop and change the filter to go with the flush?

Any transmissions [censored] out after the flush, if so which car or truck?


Originally Posted By: AdRock
Originally Posted By: DeeAgeaux
Quote:
That simple statement proves that flushing is not a safe procedure.


That proves nothing of the sort.

It proves that if a high mileage transmission has never been flushed it has too much accumalated debris to flush safely.


Exactly.

I've done tons of trans flushes with the flush machines and the only ones that ended up having problems were the trannies that had high mileage and poor fluid maintenance. In those instances I ALWAYS warned the customers of the potential problems that could arise and asked them to sign the paperwork where I had written the warning before I would do any work at all.

As someone said in an above post. Most of the machines let the trans pump do the work so there are no higher pressures FORCED through the system at all.

That article above was written by someone who either A) took a vehicle in with 100+k fluid in it and the tranny went out, or B) just doesn't like the process and has been misinformed.

The manufacturers are going to stick to their book info whether it's correct or not. Even if there was a maintenance item or process that would do the vehicle very well and have no downfall at all... the manufacturer wouldn't recomment it if they didn't put in in their literature.

 

[RF Overlord]

VNTS, I'm not trying to hijack your question, but I wanted to give you the general scenario that happens in these cases:

After years and years of no maintenance, Joe Sixpack starts hearing whining/grinding (whatever) noises or starts noticing the transmission doesn't shift properly...slips, shudders, etc...so he brings it to the nearest Quick-Lube and has it flushed. 3 weeks later, the transmission croaks. Since the last thing done was the flush, then the flush MUST have destroyed his transmission. (Never mind the fact that he never once had it serviced.)

This is how these myths and legends get started. There IS no magic mileage where a flush becomes inadvisable. It all depends on what (if any) maintenance has been performed all along. For example, my daily driver has over 120,000 miles on it. We bought it used at 87,000 from a friend whom I knew maintained his cars properly. The last time I did a drain-and-fill on the transmission, the fluid coming out looked as clean and bright as the new stuff that went in...this was after 15,000 miles of hard use. I would have NO qualms about getting a flush if I felt it was needed.

 

[AdRock]

And when you check the tranny fluid and the dipstick looks like there's old motor oil in the tranny then a flush would most likely NOT be a good idea

Tyhe mileage of the vehicle isn't really the deciding factor and whether to flush or not. It's the maintenance, or lack of, that's been or not been done.

I've done full trans flushes on vehicles with over 200k on them that never needed any tranny work done. The person had the tranny flushed every 30k so it was in great shape. When I checked the fluid it was still nice and pink. I did give him the normal warning I would for a trans with that many miles just to cover my [censored], but I knew there wasn't much chance of anything going wrong. It flushed fine and all was well.

On the other hand, I've done flushes on cars with 100k on them where the fluid looked like old gear oil. I gave the same warning to those people and made POSITIVE that theyunderstood what could happen. Even had them sign the work order station that they knew. Then do the flush and the car won't move. The people got [censored] but they knew it could happen and signed off on it anyway. Too bad for them.

 

[silverrat]

In the lube shop I work at, me and the "hacks" have done easily over 1000 flushes in the last 12 months. 3 have had problems and that's because of questionable previous maintenance.

What I would personally do is drop the pan, filter and gasket, and refill and flush.

And it's just a fluid exchange machine, we never run any solvents or cleaners.

 

[Gary Allan]

Well, you've been hacks longer ..so you hack better

 

[Donald]

Now if someone had a transmission that had poor service, the pan was dropped, filter was changed, a flush was done and a Magnefine filter was added, would that help? Or the transmission was doomed anyway?

 

[mechtech2]

A flush with cleaning agents is different than a simple fluid flush.

 

[Donald]

And places that use a cleaning agent probably add a conditioner, just adds a little more onto the bill.

 

[Jim Allen]

A person in the transmission biz once told me that most people are reactive rather than proactive with their transmissions. They ignore the trans until some adverse symptom occurs and then it's fluid changes, filters and magic elixirs, which is usually followed by a failure.

 

[salesrep]

Originally Posted By: Jim Allen
A person in the transmission biz once told me that most people are reactive rather than proactive with their transmissions. They ignore the trans until some adverse symptom occurs and then it's fluid changes, filters and magic elixirs, which is usually followed by a failure.



Spot on.
16 million transmissions fail yearly, yet consider the marketing and general knowledge/attention difference given to engine oil versus trans oil. VERY FEW change their tranny fluid or even think about it...until adverse symptons show up.

 

[ET16]

How often do you think that a flush saves the day on a symptomatic transmission?

 

[Gary Allan]

Originally Posted By: Donald
Now if someone had a transmission that had poor service, the pan was dropped, filter was changed, a flush was done and a Magnefine filter was added, would that help? Or the transmission was doomed anyway?


YMMV. What prompted the exchange? Was the customer limping in with a car that's next stop is the junkyard ..and was hoping for a stay of execution? Or was it someone who just notices a little twitch and decided to investigate?

 

[SHAMUS]

Okay; now I'm really confused. My Ford dealership has a tranny flush machine. If I have them do a flush, what questions about the type of machine should I ask them about (push, pull, pump, direction, etc) before allowing them to do one?