The Cure for NASCAR

Joined
Jan 20, 2018
Messages
1,408
Location
Arkansas
1. Other than the stage racing, the racing itself is no different than it was back before "Earnhardt died". 2. Earnhardt has been gone for 18 years, let him die already. 2. There's probably a few more drivers that can potentially win from week to week than there were back then. 3. Stock cars haven't been stock cars for decades, today's cars are safer, faster, and they do the job just fine. 4. I don't tune in to count the people in the stands, I watch the race. 5. Yes, we need more road courses. 6. Yes, we need more short tracks. 7. People complain about these young drivers having no personality, but when they show some personality, people gripe about them being spoiled, immature, or having anger issues. Watch the race or turn the channel, don't gripe and count the people in the stands. (This is not targeted at anyone specifically, just a general statement.) That's my two cents, it may not be worth a plug nickel, but there it is.
 
Joined
Aug 4, 2011
Messages
2,572
I believe one of the best things in the works right now for NASCAR is the engine package for 2021-22 NASCAR is adopting an engine package much like what is being used in IMSA Racing The engines will use somewhere around 50-70% factory production parts. Which I like the idea to know what's running the track is something that I could buy at the dealer I'd wanted to .
 
Joined
Mar 20, 2015
Messages
10,565
Location
Virginia
Originally Posted by 64bawagon
Its been discussed ad nauseum on the radio. If you favor drivers dying in crashes then this is the model for that. While I dont always agree with or understand NASCAR's direction, it is a billion dollar enterprise that is run by talented, intelligent people. I think it has more to due with modern society as a whole than it does with NASCAR's decisions.
Race drivers dying ??? How terrible.... Actually no... It isn't. Here's why in my opinion... 1) those cars are WAY, WAY, WAY safer than what you or I get into... Notice the original poster said clearly... About having all the safety stuff.... That alone makes the drivers way safer.. plus the safer barrier walls.. 2) Now .. I know this is not popular or even a common thought nowadays... But it Needs to be said... If the people going to the event of racing are way more in danger than the actual drivers.... That really means the event loses something. People want to see people doing something at least a bit dangerous and a bit crazy... Take that away totally.... The event does lose a bit of an edge what makes it worth going to. And that is really just our human nature. I am not against safety equipment or safety equipment development being done with racing. However like I said earlier.... When I am in far more mortal danger just driving to and from a race than the actual drivers in a race... That is not a good thing. Go back and watch races from the mid 80s into the 90s.... The drivers were concerned with actually getting hurt and or dying... Rusty Wallace stood up before the races at Daytona and talked about how people around the drivers were scared... And... That the drivers NEEDED to actually be mindful of each other out there on the track... "To actually use their heads"... I think being aware of one's own mortality... Is actually a good thing... It does make you think... And even some of this "I am safe so I can do whatever I want and I will be fine/safe mentality".... Has certainly crept into and on to our regular roads.... People feel so "safe" in their big honking truck, SUV or CUV or even regular sedan vehicles too for that matter.. This I believe induces a lot of stupid behavior and actions out there whole we drive the regular everyday roads. People feel invincible... Well... When a vehicle hits a decent sized tree that doesn't budge a 1/3 inch if hit really hard by a 6 thousand pound SUV. That is what kills people. Or if two vehicles going above 60,70 mph meet head on... It's really a bad circumstance. Having come across a very good number of accidents in the past 10 years... And one dead as a door nail on scene accident... Amazing what barrel rolling a vehicle and what can happen.... Aka your hit smashes through the driver's or passengers side window... And smacks the pavement... Leaving your cerebral cortex extending out from your forehead... Fixed and dilated. Gone... And for no good reason. Stupid really. I am writing about this again to make a point.... Your never know what can happen when barrel rolling a vehicle... And your window is exceptionally fragile... So is your head making contact with the pavement or ground... Your lovely higher center of gravity vehicle will not save you from that.. and neither would any vehicle save you from that... Except a heavier and high center of gravity vehicle is much more likely to experience a event like that. Again... Nothing wrong with safety innovations... But it does not make anyone invincible. And those safety innovations do not always take into account what can and does happen in the real world... And I am sorry but people who feel totally "safe".... Can really act stupid because they feel so "safe".... Maybe just maybe a sense of danger would do race drivers some good. And that is also true for all of us on those highways. All I have to do is just close my eyes and see the permanent image of that young fella dead hanging upside down in that car with road rash on one side of his face and his cerebral cortex exposed...
 
Joined
Oct 1, 2010
Messages
8,278
Location
Michigan
Originally Posted by oldhp
Originally Posted by JLTD
Originally Posted by Indydriver
Return to truly stock cars with a minimum build homologation rule. Imagine Challengers, Camaros and Mustangs racing at Daytona. Here are the simple rules: 1. No engine rules. If it's sold in the dealer's showroom, you can use it. No displacement limit, no horsepower limit. Must use street 93 gas w/10% ethanol. Leave the gas tanks stock size. Let the teams decide how much fuel (weight) they want to add. 2. No modifications to the stock body allowed. Run it like they built it. 3. Suspension changes are limited to pieces of like design. If it has shocks and springs, you can change the ride height and rates. 4. You can remove any interior item to reduce weight. No weight mins or maxs. 5. Typical safety mods required-roll cage, racing seat, fuel cell Etc. Leave the air bags in! 6. Tires are limited only by stock wheels and width of rubber. Skinny ‘em up! In summary, high drag bodies with high hp and relatively skinny tires will create a true driver's car where talent is exercised putting power to the ground while making tires last.
And each car gets 8 tires for the race…
The races(???) would be boring as heck. Those things on the track are race machines. Made and built purely to race. No engine rules? Pffft......you'd only have maybe 1/2 the field. The little teams wouldn't have the unlimited money to develop their engines. Remember in the 90's when engines were spinning to 10K RPM and living??? Money honey, and only a few had it then, or would have it now. Stock bodies with cages? Pfffft, They wouldn't last because of all the forces these race machines endure. Skinny tires? No thank you, cars need traction. No traction = no speed = Boring racing............I thought that was the problem???? Go back to the 1950's / 1960's when good ol'boy racing started. Winner's winning by 5-10- 15 laps. Drivers being killed all the time. But back then the paying public had nothing better to do or spend their money on so they went to the races. They didn't have their $700/$1000 phones that can get you anything in a split second and entertain you all day. Nope I'll keep what's on now. The paying public wants excitement from lap one now and that's not how it works. Am I an expert? No. But I know enough to know that 250MPH WON'T work. Or the other side of watching a bunch of "cars driving" around a racetrack at 140MPH will be BORING and that won't work either.
You've obviously never watched IMSA World Challenge racing. Stock cars with cages. Mildly modified engines. The racing is excellent, and the cars last through the season if they are not crashed. It's not the high speeds that necessarily make racing entertaining, it's the close competition. But there has to be speed; I wouldn't care about a race if the cars only went 60 mph. But 140 mph is fast, if you as a spectator understand that the corners they are going through are 139 mph turns. If the cars are visibly getting out of shape in the turns, then the spectators know that the drivers are at the limit of control. I think the basic problem that has come to afflict racing is aerodynamics. In NASCAR, IndyCar, and F1, in every race you see the car in the lead pulling away, and hear the trailing drivers complaining about aero-push. F1 has tried to deal with this via the Drag Reduction System.
 
Joined
Mar 20, 2015
Messages
10,565
Location
Virginia
Originally Posted by A_Harman
Originally Posted by oldhp
Originally Posted by JLTD
Originally Posted by Indydriver
Return to truly stock cars with a minimum build homologation rule. Imagine Challengers, Camaros and Mustangs racing at Daytona. Here are the simple rules: 1. No engine rules. If it's sold in the dealer's showroom, you can use it. No displacement limit, no horsepower limit. Must use street 93 gas w/10% ethanol. Leave the gas tanks stock size. Let the teams decide how much fuel (weight) they want to add. 2. No modifications to the stock body allowed. Run it like they built it. 3. Suspension changes are limited to pieces of like design. If it has shocks and springs, you can change the ride height and rates. 4. You can remove any interior item to reduce weight. No weight mins or maxs. 5. Typical safety mods required-roll cage, racing seat, fuel cell Etc. Leave the air bags in! 6. Tires are limited only by stock wheels and width of rubber. Skinny ‘em up! In summary, high drag bodies with high hp and relatively skinny tires will create a true driver's car where talent is exercised putting power to the ground while making tires last.
And each car gets 8 tires for the race…
The races(???) would be boring as heck. Those things on the track are race machines. Made and built purely to race. No engine rules? Pffft......you'd only have maybe 1/2 the field. The little teams wouldn't have the unlimited money to develop their engines. Remember in the 90's when engines were spinning to 10K RPM and living??? Money honey, and only a few had it then, or would have it now. Stock bodies with cages? Pfffft, They wouldn't last because of all the forces these race machines endure. Skinny tires? No thank you, cars need traction. No traction = no speed = Boring racing............I thought that was the problem???? Go back to the 1950's / 1960's when good ol'boy racing started. Winner's winning by 5-10- 15 laps. Drivers being killed all the time. But back then the paying public had nothing better to do or spend their money on so they went to the races. They didn't have their $700/$1000 phones that can get you anything in a split second and entertain you all day. Nope I'll keep what's on now. The paying public wants excitement from lap one now and that's not how it works. Am I an expert? No. But I know enough to know that 250MPH WON'T work. Or the other side of watching a bunch of "cars driving" around a racetrack at 140MPH will be BORING and that won't work either.
You've obviously never watched IMSA World Challenge racing. Stock cars with cages. Mildly modified engines. The racing is excellent, and the cars last through the season if they are not crashed. It's not the high speeds that necessarily make racing entertaining, it's the close competition. But there has to be speed; I wouldn't care about a race if the cars only went 60 mph. But 140 mph is fast, if you as a spectator understand that the corners they are going through are 139 mph turns. If the cars are visibly getting out of shape in the turns, then the spectators know that the drivers are at the limit of control. I think the basic problem that has come to afflict racing is aerodynamics. In NASCAR, IndyCar, and F1, in every race you see the car in the lead pulling away, and hear the trailing drivers complaining about aero-push. F1 has tried to deal with this via the Drag Reduction System.
Really good post A Harman ^^^^^^^^ IMSA is pretty cool indeed...
 
Joined
Jun 28, 2012
Messages
3,242
Location
Southern Illinois
IMSA?????? You mean purpose built race sports cars??????? They are race machines. Heck just skimming over the rule book shows they ain't stock.
 
Joined
Aug 4, 2011
Messages
2,572
Originally Posted by c502cid
It didn't kill Nascar but it put the nail in the coffin..... Toyota.
💵💵💵💵💵💵💵💵💵💵💵💵💵💵💵💵💵💵💵💵💵💵💵💵💵💵💵💵💵💵💵💵💵💵💵💵💵💵💵💵
 

Indydriver

Thread starter
Joined
Mar 20, 2011
Messages
2,220
Location
Indiana
Originally Posted by c502cid
It didn't kill Nascar but it put the nail in the coffin..... Toyota.
Toyota is an interesting question under my rules. What would they run? A 6 cyl turbo Supra? What about other manufacturers not currently competing? Hybrids? Let the manufacturers and teams innovate. The tire limitations would create a natural limit for useable HP. Then the development goes in a HP/LB direction. Maybe a 500 HP blown 4 would be the best engine. Who knows? Let's find out. Chevy sold 2000 Z/28 Camaros last time around. That would be a good number for homologation.
 
Joined
Apr 3, 2016
Messages
126
Location
Portland, OR
I'm into Stage Rally and Indy, but I do watch some NASCAR as my wife is a fan. My observation is that the cars are not "stock" anymore but a platform like Indy, which makes more sense there as its open wheel. At least in rally, the phrase "What wins on Sunday, Sells on Monday" still applies and while sure people bring up Dale Sr is been dead for 18 years, he comes from the era where that is still true and that died with it.
 
Joined
Apr 25, 2005
Messages
783
Location
Austin Texas
Originally Posted by danez_yoda
Anytime there is competition, people will cheat. They call it bending the rules but its still cheating. Ford, chevy and dodge will make a special (limited edition, they make 20 or so) cars that are specifically designed for the Nascar race and barely street legal.
Just like in the "Good old Days !"
 
Joined
Jun 3, 2005
Messages
17,171
Location
Santa Barbara, CA
Originally Posted by johnnydc
Run them like the Australian V8 Super cars. They look more stock than NASCAR cars look and are very safe.
I would not be opposed to this, I watched Bathurst last night and I was on pins and needles willing Scotty to win.
 
Joined
Jan 20, 2018
Messages
1,408
Location
Arkansas
Originally Posted by bdcardinal
Originally Posted by johnnydc
Run them like the Australian V8 Super cars. They look more stock than NASCAR cars look and are very safe.
I would not be opposed to this, I watched Bathurst last night and I was on pins and needles willing Scotty to win.
I wouldn't be opposed to this idea either. I remember when I discovered this series, Craig Lowndes had the coolest car back then, "The green eyed monster".
 
Joined
May 7, 2010
Messages
1,753
Location
Ocala, Florida
I still love the sport and have been a fan for ages, the only thing I HATE is the fact that Toyota is in there with a Camry and spending millions to line the right pockets. Toyota and the whole "chase" format is what killed NASCAR. Take those two out and the sport would grow slowly again. Bring Dodge back with the awesome sports cars they make now and have them run with the Camaro and Mustang. Those are real, rear wheel drive american sports cars and that is what people want to see. Sure they aren't even close to stock and due to technology and safety requirements, they never will be. No "Chase" BS and none of this crap where a driver can be mediocre all year, barely win a single race all season and then come and steal the championship in the last 4 races. (I;e Kyle Busch and Joey Logano) Add more tracks like the ROVAL, switch it up more and lose all the 1.5 mile boring races!
 
Joined
Mar 14, 2006
Messages
9,614
Location
Pennsylbammyvania
Originally Posted by KE7JFF
I'm into Stage Rally and Indy, but I do watch some NASCAR as my wife is a fan. At least in rally, the phrase "What wins on Sunday, Sells on Monday" still applies
EXACTLY! thumbsup And although many on here will bring up that actual WRC cars are also "far from stock", they are at least BASED on the unibodies of base, econoboxes, and not purpose built from the ground up, tube frames, or carbon composite chassis, with mandated, FAR from stock, 'silhouette' bodies on them. They must also be street legal enough to be able to be driven on OPEN public roads for the transits between the competitive, full speed special stages. They also compete on (yes closed to the public for the events, of course) actual public tarmac roads, or forestry gravel roads (or frozen lakes in the case of the Swedish round), and NOT glass smooth ovals or road courses. wink drive
 
Top