The boondoggle has neared completion: Vogtle 3 is critical!

[OVERKILL]

Vogtle Unit 3 reaches initial criticality

/PRNewswire/ -- Georgia Power today announced that Vogtle Unit 3 has safely reached initial criticality. Initial criticality is a key step during the startup...

www.prnewswire.com

Following on the heels of this thread:

First new nuclear power plant since NRC Part 52 was issued gets its license - Vogtle is going live

When the NRC was formed (replacing the AEC) in 1975, overhauls were made to the regulation process. While it has, multiple times, been accused of "industry capture", since 1989, when Part 52 was imposed, it has not granted a single new operating license. However, on August 3rd, 2022, an...

bobistheoilguy.com

Vogtle Unit 3 has now attained first criticality.

ATLANTA , March 6, 2023 /PRNewswire/ -- Georgia Power today announced that Vogtle Unit 3 has safely reached initial criticality. Initial criticality is a key step during the startup testing sequence and demonstrates that -- for the first time -- operators have safely started the nuclear reaction inside the reactor. This means atoms are being split and nuclear heat is being made, which will be used to produce steam.

Unit 4 shouldn't be too far behind.

 

[4WD]

Ok - it’s a boondoggle … We should no longer invest in those …

 

[OVERKILL]

Ok - it’s a boondoggle … We should no longer invest in those …

Lessons have hopefully been learned from this project. The AP1000 is a fantastic design, execution of this project was an absolute disaster. If they have any hope of building more they are going to have to come in much lower in price than this pair has. VC Summer SHOULD be completed, but there needs to be some sort of budget guarantee.

 

[4WD]

Lessons have hopefully been learned from this project. The AP1000 is a fantastic design, execution of this project was an absolute disaster. If they have any hope of building more they are going to have to come in much lower in price than this pair has. VC Summer SHOULD be completed, but there needs to be some sort of budget guarantee.

The government has not committed the best and brightest to the right prospects - so the private sector should move on because they can’t attract them with all the wasted effort/billions going to “little green pastures” …

 

[MRC01]

Nuclear power is a great example of how the difference between theory & reality is bigger in reality than it is in theory.

Great idea, a potential solution to reliable high density power with no carbon emissions. But in implementation, they are always WAY over budget and WAY beyond schedule. That's a high risk and early commitment of future dollars, which is high opportunity cost against technology we might otherwise develop in the meantime.

This stark difference is a major reason why we read such varying opinions about it, from it's going to save humanity, to it spells our doom. Depends on whether the authors focus on the theoretical potential, or actual real-world results & economics.

Now that they've built this one, it's a sunk cost so let's hope it runs productively for its full expected lifetime and more.

 

[OVERKILL]

Nuclear power is a great example of how the difference between theory & reality is bigger in reality than it is in theory.

Great idea, a potential solution to reliable high density power with no carbon emissions. But in implementation, they are always WAY over budget and WAY beyond schedule. That's a high risk and early commitment of future dollars, which is high opportunity cost against technology we might otherwise develop in the meantime.

This stark difference is a major reason why we read such varying opinions about it, from it's going to save humanity, to it spells our doom. Depends on whether the authors focus on the theoretical potential, or actual real-world results & economics.

Now that they've built this one, it's a sunk cost so let's hope it runs productively for its full expected lifetime and more.

This is not exclusive to nuclear power.

Execution of large infrastructure in the West has become a gong show, always going way over time and over budget. China has executed multiple NPP projects all on time and on budget, including THIS SAME DESIGN! They've also built EPR's, like HPC, but, unlike HPC, on-time and on-budget.

Look at the UAE, their nuclear plant construction has been a phenomenal success, and it's their first one!

No, this isn't a nuclear plant problem, this is a multi-faceted problem that plagues the West and affects large civil engineering projects as a whole. There's an off-shore wind farm that's shaping up to be just as much of a financial disaster as this project and wind farms are a heck of a lot simpler than a nuke.

 

[Skippy722]

Nuclear power is a great example of how the difference between theory & reality is bigger in reality than it is in theory.

Great idea, a potential solution to reliable high density power with no carbon emissions. But in implementation, they are always WAY over budget and WAY beyond schedule. That's a high risk and early commitment of future dollars, which is high opportunity cost against technology we might otherwise develop in the meantime.

This stark difference is a major reason why we read such varying opinions about it, from it's going to save humanity, to it spells our doom. Depends on whether the authors focus on the theoretical potential, or actual real-world results & economics.

Now that they've built this one, it's a sunk cost so let's hope it runs productively for its full expected lifetime and more.

It doesn’t help that there are people/groups who attempt to stop pretty much any large civil engineering project every single step along the way using the court system.

 

[4WD]

It doesn’t help that there are people/groups who attempt to stop pretty much any large civil engineering project every single step along the way using the court system.

Since I spend daylight to dark with engineers every day - I struggle with the number of engineers -vs- lawyers that I find on the internet - and hope it’s not true …

 

[MRC01]

...
No, this isn't a nuclear plant problem, this is a multi-faceted problem that plagues the West and affects large civil engineering projects as a whole. There's an off-shore wind farm that's shaping up to be just as much of a financial disaster as this project and wind farms are a heck of a lot simpler than a nuke.

It doesn’t help that there are people/groups who attempt to stop pretty much any large civil engineering project every single step along the way using the court system.

No doubt lawsuits from all different directions are a contributing factor to the cost & budget issues. We do have too many lawyers here in the USA and a tort system that encourages abuse. But that is just one contributing factor among many others. The story of the Vogtle plant is a litany of setbacks along the way, many of which were "oops" moments in planning or execution, otherwise known as "unforced errors" having nothing to with lawyers.

PS: an article from last year from a local Georgia source, describing some of the setbacks on the Vogtle project: https://georgiawatch.org/how-georgia-nuclear-projects-big-finish-went-so-wrong/
A few months after that, even more problems leading to even higher costs: https://www.ans.org/news/article-3949/vogtle-project-update-cost-likely-to-top-30-billion/

That said, I'll repeat that I'm glad they finally were successful, and hope it runs productively for a long time.

 

[JHZR2]

Nuclear power is a great example of how the difference between theory & reality is bigger in reality than it is in theory.

Great idea, a potential solution to reliable high density power with no carbon emissions. But in implementation, they are always WAY over budget and WAY beyond schedule. That's a high risk and early commitment of future dollars, which is high opportunity cost against technology we might otherwise develop in the meantime.

This stark difference is a major reason why we read such varying opinions about it, from it's going to save humanity, to it spells our doom. Depends on whether the authors focus on the theoretical potential, or actual real-world results & economics.

Now that they've built this one, it's a sunk cost so let's hope it runs productively for its full expected lifetime and more.

Review Rickover’s definition of a paper reactor vs a real one…

 

[MRC01]

Review Rickover’s definition of a paper reactor vs a real one…

Nice one:

 

[OVERKILL]

The story of the Vogtle plant is a litany of setbacks along the way, many of which were "oops" moments in planning or execution, otherwise known as "unforced errors" having nothing to with lawyers.

As is the case with so many other civil engineering projects unfortunately. BC's Site C dam, Muskrat Falls, the bridge San Francisco imported from China...etc.

 

[4WD]

As is the case with so many other civil engineering projects unfortunately. BC's Site C dam, Muskrat Falls, the bridge San Francisco imported from China...etc.

Yeah - I can walk 10m and launch a rant over this one - I mean a red in the face rant

Muskrat Falls Generating Station - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[OVERKILL]

Yeah - I can walk 10m and launch a rant over this one - I mean a red in the face rant

Muskrat Falls Generating Station - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Yeah, that project is a total gong show and was going to bankrupt Newfoundland so then the Federal government had to step in and now the rest of Canada is paying for it.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

No doubt lawsuits from all different directions are a contributing factor to the cost & budget issues. We do have too many lawyers here in the USA and a tort system that encourages abuse. But that is just one contributing factor among many others. The story of the Vogtle plant is a litany of setbacks along the way, many of which were "oops" moments in planning or execution, otherwise known as "unforced errors" having nothing to with lawyers.

PS: an article from last year from a local Georgia source, describing some of the setbacks on the Vogtle project: https://georgiawatch.org/how-georgia-nuclear-projects-big-finish-went-so-wrong/
A few months after that, even more problems leading to even higher costs: https://www.ans.org/news/article-3949/vogtle-project-update-cost-likely-to-top-30-billion/

That said, I'll repeat that I'm glad they finally were successful, and hope it runs productively for a long time.

Only $34B. Gosh I feel so warm and fuzzy here in Georgia.

 

[OVERKILL]

Only $34B. Gosh I feel so warm and fuzzy here in Georgia.

I know it's no consolation, but HPC is running about the same (though the EPR has larger units, ~1,600MW vs 1,100MW for the AP1000). BC's Site C dam is at $16 billion for half the nameplate of Vogtle, or about the same price per MW, despite having a much lower CF, and of course Muskrat Falls is now up to $13.4 billion for 824MW.

As I noted earlier, we have a serious issue with timely and on-budget execution of large infrastructure in the West. It's really quite depressing.

 

[tyman]

About stinkin time.

 

[Yah-Tah-Hey]

Vogtle Unit 3 reaches initial criticality

/PRNewswire/ -- Georgia Power today announced that Vogtle Unit 3 has safely reached initial criticality. Initial criticality is a key step during the startup...

www.prnewswire.com

Following on the heels of this thread:

First new nuclear power plant since NRC Part 52 was issued gets its license - Vogtle is going live

When the NRC was formed (replacing the AEC) in 1975, overhauls were made to the regulation process. While it has, multiple times, been accused of "industry capture", since 1989, when Part 52 was imposed, it has not granted a single new operating license. However, on August 3rd, 2022, an...

bobistheoilguy.com

Vogtle Unit 3 has now attained first criticality.

Unit 4 shouldn't be too far behind.

Beautiful generating unit. Go for it Georgia Power.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

I know it's no consolation, but HPC is running about the same (though the EPR has larger units, ~1,600MW vs 1,100MW for the AP1000). BC's Site C dam is at $16 billion for half the nameplate of Vogtle, or about the same price per MW, despite having a much lower CF, and of course Muskrat Falls is now up to $13.4 billion for 824MW.

As I noted earlier, we have a serious issue with timely and on-budget execution of large infrastructure in the West. It's really quite depressing.

I know it was mentioned that projects seem to go up on schedule in China but does anyone really believe that? Their entire state apparatus built around never being wrong.

In any case I hope the GA Power doesn't turn into First Energy (Ohio) who's in need of a $1B+ bailout for their two nuke plants.

 

[4WD]

This is not exclusive to nuclear power.

Execution of large infrastructure in the West has become a gong show, always going way over time and over budget. China has executed multiple NPP projects all on time and on budget, including THIS SAME DESIGN! They've also built EPR's, like HPC, but, unlike HPC, on-time and on-budget.

Look at the UAE, their nuclear plant construction has been a phenomenal success, and it's their first one!

No, this isn't a nuclear plant problem, this is a multi-faceted problem that plagues the West and affects large civil engineering projects as a whole. There's an off-shore wind farm that's shaping up to be just as much of a financial disaster as this project and wind farms are a heck of a lot simpler than a nuke.

Not to mention the road oil & gas has paved for O/W … from metocean test tanks, software, engineering, fabrication, heavy lift, directional drilling under the seabed, right down to offshore survival training - but not a peep on CNN