What do you mean by best?
the best synth oil is what
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Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
M1 0W-40 is essentially a Euro formulation, it only meets ILSAC GF-3 and it's not an energy conserving oil.
The question was whether Mobil 1 designs their oils to meet every spec. The answer is no, and that is why they have at least 15 different synthetic oils for the USA market alone.
Notice that the 0W-40 European formula is designed for longer OCI's and are not energy conserving formulas. There is a connection there.
Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
How does the AFE line have reduced friction compared to any other Energy Conserving oil?
According to Mobil, because of more friction modifier additives. Mobil 1 5W-30 is a Starburst energy conserving formula, but the 0W-30 AFE oil (same viscosity at operating temps) yields better fuel economy.
M1 0W-40 is essentially a Euro formulation, it only meets ILSAC GF-3 and it's not an energy conserving oil.
The question was whether Mobil 1 designs their oils to meet every spec. The answer is no, and that is why they have at least 15 different synthetic oils for the USA market alone.
Notice that the 0W-40 European formula is designed for longer OCI's and are not energy conserving formulas. There is a connection there.
Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
How does the AFE line have reduced friction compared to any other Energy Conserving oil?
According to Mobil, because of more friction modifier additives. Mobil 1 5W-30 is a Starburst energy conserving formula, but the 0W-30 AFE oil (same viscosity at operating temps) yields better fuel economy.
Originally Posted By: Pablo
THAT is a crock of doo-doo. See below.
Maybe we disagree about how often some of these myths are stated as fact. I am not claiming that all of them are widespread (although some are), but there are at least some posters who have said or implied all of these. For a newbie, it is hard to for them to know how wide spread the views are, especially when some of the more outlandish stuff comes from frequent posters.
Originally Posted By: Pablo
1)I've never actually seen any of the four points stated and argued, but there is some bits of truth in there. But you have some real khrap in there as well.
a) to some extent there is truth in the higher the cost the more esters, and the less ring build up, ie the more the oil costs the better it is. Now, do people really need this? I can argue, well maybe - all these folks running AutoRx at 100K with gummy rings....
b) I've never seen anyone say that, in fact on the contrary people say ExxonMobil has better R&D ALL that darn time!! So that one you just made up.
c) Who said the smaller companies make their own ingredients? So that one you just made up as well.
d)They ALL care about profits. Who here said they don't? Another made up one by you fertile imagination.
2) No one said "per quart". Again, proof? Lots of folks know the majors spend a LOT of dough on ads.
3) There is some valid arguments on both sides for certain grades of M1 containing Group III. Personally I don't care, but this site is NOT perpetuating anything - there is no definitive proof either way, and if anything some solid proof that certain grades of M1 contain Group III. NOT ALL M1.
4) I have to agree - you have a point with this one. But again I don't think the site perpetuates this - just some very forceful posters who have either not tried synthetic, used it once, etc or have a real agenda for low price oil.
5) I have to agree - For many years it was true and to this day it sticks. But this one is slowly changing right here on this site. More to life than a single UOA.
6) No one other than a newbie asking a question has ever said " 5W-30 oils have the same viscosity" on BITOG. You pulled that out of your arse. Quite the contrary on BITOG.
7) Another made up one, please a reference - in fact I've seen the contrary. Often times it's posted - and in fact if you read the Molakule posts and QA threads that what is best for protection, if often a trade off.
8) Who here, other than a newbie, has said there is one best oil? And even the sticking point of this thread is exactly that!!
Again you accused this web site of "perpetrat(ing) myths". And you made a up a bunch of stuff.
1. Some people have stated all of these in one form or another.
a) Many boutique synthetic oils have above average amounts of Group IV and V base stock. But many have less than M1 but they cost a lot more than M1. I showed that Schaeffer's has about 20-25% PAO according to their MSDS, and I think RP is the same or less.
b) Maybe most people admit that the majors have better R&D, but some do not admit that, and there is the mystique about the boutique oils that there is some genius at work that knows more than the majors (maybe that is actually true, I don't know for sure, but I seriously doubt it).
c) Some people don't realize that the boutiques purchase all their ingredients, including synthetic base stock from the majors. Recently I pointed out that even Valvoline purchases all their ingredients from outside companies and does not refine them internally.
d) One well known poster has said that XOM cares too much about profits and has compromised their oils in recent years because of that. That implies that XOM cares more about profits than the boutique companies.
2). Quite a few people assume that the cost of a bottle of oil from a major includes more advertising dollars than from a boutique. I have had to specifically correct this several times (I am not going to find the threads/posts, but I can assure you it has been said).
3). There are probably at least several grades of M1 that contain Group III, but these same grades also contain substantial Group IV and maybe V. I would not compare a 90%+ Group III full synthetic oil with one that is 50% Group III. M1 has on average more PAO than Schaeffer's and RP. Amsoil makes an entire line of Group III oils.
4). I don't want to get into the "perpetuate" debate. But there are are a lot of dino advocates on this forum (and others) who say synthetic is a waste of money. I don't know how you claim that this has not been claimed by quite a few people.
5). Agreed. This is basically logic. To find out about the oil, test the oil. To find out about the engine, test the engine. Pure scientific method.
6). Many people think all 5W-30 are the same viscosity. I have had to post links to the allowed ranges (wide enough to drive a Mack truck through) several times to counter such statements. Further, many believe that a 5W-30 and 10W-30 have the same viscosity at operating temps. This has been stated hundreds of times.
7). Yes, most people get this right, but there are some who don't. The very title of a thread "the best oil" shows that some people don't accept the fact that an oil that is excellent in one respect may be less than perfect in other respects. The myth of the perfect oil (like the Holly Grail) is alive deep in the hearts of all the members of this forum (except for a few marketing people who don't really care).
8). Same as 7.
So it appears you only a few quarrels with my statements about what is true or false (myth vs reality) and your main objection is whether these things are actually posted on this forum. Well, I say they are, at least some of the time, which is confusing to many long time members, not to mention an unsuspecting newbie.
THAT is a crock of doo-doo. See below.
Maybe we disagree about how often some of these myths are stated as fact. I am not claiming that all of them are widespread (although some are), but there are at least some posters who have said or implied all of these. For a newbie, it is hard to for them to know how wide spread the views are, especially when some of the more outlandish stuff comes from frequent posters.
Originally Posted By: Pablo
1)I've never actually seen any of the four points stated and argued, but there is some bits of truth in there. But you have some real khrap in there as well.
a) to some extent there is truth in the higher the cost the more esters, and the less ring build up, ie the more the oil costs the better it is. Now, do people really need this? I can argue, well maybe - all these folks running AutoRx at 100K with gummy rings....
b) I've never seen anyone say that, in fact on the contrary people say ExxonMobil has better R&D ALL that darn time!! So that one you just made up.
c) Who said the smaller companies make their own ingredients? So that one you just made up as well.
d)They ALL care about profits. Who here said they don't? Another made up one by you fertile imagination.
2) No one said "per quart". Again, proof? Lots of folks know the majors spend a LOT of dough on ads.
3) There is some valid arguments on both sides for certain grades of M1 containing Group III. Personally I don't care, but this site is NOT perpetuating anything - there is no definitive proof either way, and if anything some solid proof that certain grades of M1 contain Group III. NOT ALL M1.
4) I have to agree - you have a point with this one. But again I don't think the site perpetuates this - just some very forceful posters who have either not tried synthetic, used it once, etc or have a real agenda for low price oil.
5) I have to agree - For many years it was true and to this day it sticks. But this one is slowly changing right here on this site. More to life than a single UOA.
6) No one other than a newbie asking a question has ever said " 5W-30 oils have the same viscosity" on BITOG. You pulled that out of your arse. Quite the contrary on BITOG.
7) Another made up one, please a reference - in fact I've seen the contrary. Often times it's posted - and in fact if you read the Molakule posts and QA threads that what is best for protection, if often a trade off.
8) Who here, other than a newbie, has said there is one best oil? And even the sticking point of this thread is exactly that!!
Again you accused this web site of "perpetrat(ing) myths". And you made a up a bunch of stuff.
1. Some people have stated all of these in one form or another.
a) Many boutique synthetic oils have above average amounts of Group IV and V base stock. But many have less than M1 but they cost a lot more than M1. I showed that Schaeffer's has about 20-25% PAO according to their MSDS, and I think RP is the same or less.
b) Maybe most people admit that the majors have better R&D, but some do not admit that, and there is the mystique about the boutique oils that there is some genius at work that knows more than the majors (maybe that is actually true, I don't know for sure, but I seriously doubt it).
c) Some people don't realize that the boutiques purchase all their ingredients, including synthetic base stock from the majors. Recently I pointed out that even Valvoline purchases all their ingredients from outside companies and does not refine them internally.
d) One well known poster has said that XOM cares too much about profits and has compromised their oils in recent years because of that. That implies that XOM cares more about profits than the boutique companies.
2). Quite a few people assume that the cost of a bottle of oil from a major includes more advertising dollars than from a boutique. I have had to specifically correct this several times (I am not going to find the threads/posts, but I can assure you it has been said).
3). There are probably at least several grades of M1 that contain Group III, but these same grades also contain substantial Group IV and maybe V. I would not compare a 90%+ Group III full synthetic oil with one that is 50% Group III. M1 has on average more PAO than Schaeffer's and RP. Amsoil makes an entire line of Group III oils.
4). I don't want to get into the "perpetuate" debate. But there are are a lot of dino advocates on this forum (and others) who say synthetic is a waste of money. I don't know how you claim that this has not been claimed by quite a few people.
5). Agreed. This is basically logic. To find out about the oil, test the oil. To find out about the engine, test the engine. Pure scientific method.
6). Many people think all 5W-30 are the same viscosity. I have had to post links to the allowed ranges (wide enough to drive a Mack truck through) several times to counter such statements. Further, many believe that a 5W-30 and 10W-30 have the same viscosity at operating temps. This has been stated hundreds of times.
7). Yes, most people get this right, but there are some who don't. The very title of a thread "the best oil" shows that some people don't accept the fact that an oil that is excellent in one respect may be less than perfect in other respects. The myth of the perfect oil (like the Holly Grail) is alive deep in the hearts of all the members of this forum (except for a few marketing people who don't really care).
8). Same as 7.
So it appears you only a few quarrels with my statements about what is true or false (myth vs reality) and your main objection is whether these things are actually posted on this forum. Well, I say they are, at least some of the time, which is confusing to many long time members, not to mention an unsuspecting newbie.
Originally Posted By: buster
Amsoil's own white papers really open my eyes to how poorly some smaller boutique brands are. They are often nothing special.
Then they have done their task.
I for one take those papers with a grain of salt.
Amsoil's own white papers really open my eyes to how poorly some smaller boutique brands are. They are often nothing special.
Then they have done their task.
I for one take those papers with a grain of salt.
Originally Posted By: Mark888
Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
M1 0W-40 is essentially a Euro formulation, it only meets ILSAC GF-3 and it's not an energy conserving oil.
The question was whether Mobil 1 designs their oils to meet every spec.
No it wasn't.
Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
Originally Posted By: Mark888
How does the AFE line have reduced friction compared to any other Energy Conserving oil?
According to Mobil, because of more friction modifier additives. Mobil 1 5W-30 is a Starburst energy conserving formula, but the 0W-30 AFE oil (same viscosity at operating temps) yields better fuel economy.
According to what?
Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
M1 0W-40 is essentially a Euro formulation, it only meets ILSAC GF-3 and it's not an energy conserving oil.
The question was whether Mobil 1 designs their oils to meet every spec.
No it wasn't.
Originally Posted By: Ben99GT
Originally Posted By: Mark888
How does the AFE line have reduced friction compared to any other Energy Conserving oil?
According to Mobil, because of more friction modifier additives. Mobil 1 5W-30 is a Starburst energy conserving formula, but the 0W-30 AFE oil (same viscosity at operating temps) yields better fuel economy.
According to what?
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