The best oil for my bike?

[heavyhitter]

Your are right Tucson, motorcycle oils have alot more zinc.
Correct me if I am wrong zinc is a LAST RESORT additive, that is the zinc kicks in so to speak when the rest of the oil "fails" so to speak. Catch my drift? Blah I had to many beers tonight to formulate a better post.

 

[whitesands]

Not all motorcycle specific oils have more zinc than HDEO's...It really depends on which oils you're comparing...

 

[TucsonDon]

Originally Posted By: whitesands
Not all motorcycle specific oils have more zinc than HDEO's...It really depends on which oils you're comparing...
Then that really begs the question -- what makes a motorcycle oil a motorcycle oil?

If there's no consistent structural difference, then "motorcycle specific" oil is simply an empty phrase.

Getting to azsynthetic's main point, then the issue is not so much using a "motorcycle specific oil" as it is using a "specific oil tailored for racing."

If so ... then I'd ask ... what would make a "racing oil" a "racing oil?"

 

[heavyhitter]

A picture of a racer on it, duh!

 

[boraticus]

Originally Posted By: heavyhitter

That's right. The more the bike is leaned over in the picture, the better the oil has to be.

 

[Redline955]

After a highside into the gravel, the oil has to adequately lubricate the engine while the bike is on it's side. That's when "Crashing" spec oil is required!

 

[azsynthetic]

Originally Posted By: TucsonDon
Then that really begs the question -- what makes a motorcycle oil a motorcycle oil?

If there's no consistent structural difference, then "motorcycle specific" oil is simply an empty phrase.

Getting to azsynthetic's main point, then the issue is not so much using a "motorcycle specific oil" as it is using a "specific oil tailored for racing."

If so ... then I'd ask ... what would make a "racing oil" a "racing oil?"


Most car/truck oils are not tested at extremely high RPM (>20,000rpm), whereas all ultra-high performance motorcycle oils are. Shell has two oils that will give you either maximum power or maximum protection but not both. No car/truck oil can make that claim. Also, there are no air cooled car/truck engine currently in production that I know off. There are literally millions of air cooled bikes produced every year. These air cooled engines are oil killers under severe usage.

 

[boraticus]

Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
Originally Posted By: TucsonDon
Then that really begs the question -- what makes a motorcycle oil a motorcycle oil?

If there's no consistent structural difference, then "motorcycle specific" oil is simply an empty phrase.

Getting to azsynthetic's main point, then the issue is not so much using a "motorcycle specific oil" as it is using a "specific oil tailored for racing."

If so ... then I'd ask ... what would make a "racing oil" a "racing oil?"


Most car/truck oils are not tested at extremely high RPM (>20,000rpm), whereas all ultra-high performance motorcycle oils are. Shell has two oils that will give you either maximum power or maximum protection but not both. No car/truck oil can make that claim. Also, there are no air cooled car/truck engine currently in production that I know off. There are literally millions of air cooled bikes produced every year. These air cooled engines are oil killers under severe usage.


I ran air cooled motorcycles and atvs for many, many years lubricated with HDEO (mostly Rotella 15W40). No issues and no problems. Now if my engines ran fine for over 25 years using HDEO, why would I bother to pay multiples more for "motorcycle specific" oil? If the oil provides protection that well, what exactly is missing that expensive Hollywood oil will provide?

All my modern liquid cooled four stroke bikes get the same oil that my air cooled bikes/atvs did. Rotella T 15W40. I might try some Delvac if I can find it and the price is competitive. There's no way in h*ll that I'll pay the ridiculous premium for lesser quality motorcycle oil nor for premium quality motorcycle oil. Not a chance. Not brainwashed and don't have a vested interest to be a proponent of unnecessarily high priced designer oil.

 

[XS650]

Originally Posted By: TucsonDon
Originally Posted By: whitesands
Not all motorcycle specific oils have more zinc than HDEO's...It really depends on which oils you're comparing...
Then that really begs the question -- what makes a motorcycle oil a motorcycle oil?

If there's no consistent structural difference, then "motorcycle specific" oil is simply an empty phrase.



There are two significant differences that are almost always there for MC oil.

1. Price
2. A picture of a motorcycle on the can.

 

[azsynthetic]

Originally Posted By: boraticus

I ran air cooled motorcycles and atvs for many, many years lubricated with HDEO (mostly Rotella 15W40). No issues and no problems. Now if my engines ran fine for over 25 years using HDEO, why would I bother to pay multiples more for "motorcycle specific" oil? If the oil provides protection that well, what exactly is missing that expensive Hollywood oil will provide?

All my modern liquid cooled four stroke bikes get the same oil that my air cooled bikes/atvs did. Rotella T 15W40. I might try some Delvac if I can find it and the price is competitive. There's no way in h*ll that I'll pay the ridiculous premium for lesser quality motorcycle oil nor for premium quality motorcycle oil. Not a chance. Not brainwashed and don't have a vested interest to be a proponent of unnecessarily high priced designer oil.


You don't need any thing more than Rotella for your grocery getters. For others that abuse their bike in Asia or Middle East then the best oil is not Rotella. You have not a clue how other people use their bike and why they need the best oil money can buy. Have you ever try to pull a 1200lbs cart with a Honda Dream 100cc aircool engine in a 120 degree heat in a middle of a desert? It is not a pretty picture.

Do you think Motul is wrong? Look in the FAQ section of this page:

http://www.motul.fr/uk/conseils/index_moto.html

 

[TucsonDon]

Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
Most car/truck oils are not tested at extremely high RPM (>20,000rpm), whereas all ultra-high performance motorcycle oils are.
I recognize there's a difference between the RPMs an oil is tested at and the RPMs a bike will operate at. I'm not aware of any motorcycles that have even redlines that high, but I could be wrong. I thought most maxed out at about 14K or so.

Indy cars are rev-limited to 10,400rpm or something like that. I guess some turbochargers spin way up, but I don't know if the engine oil bathes them.

Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
Have you ever try to pull a 1200lbs cart with a Honda Dream 100cc aircool engine in a 120 degree heat in a middle of a desert? It is not a pretty picture.
I'm sure it's not. But the question is what kind of person pulls a 1200 pound cart in the middle of the desert with a 100cc air cooled bike? My guess is not someone willing to pay $15/quart for a ultra-high premium oil. My guess is they drop whatever junk they can find into the bike, and leave it there for a long, long time.

Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
Shell has two oils that will give you either maximum power or maximum protection but not both.

What oils are you speaking of? The Shell MotoSport oils? I've looked and looked and the website seems to intentionally ignore the U.S. Not sure what Ducati owners do. Perhaps Ducati dealers import it specifically?

I'm still curious -- what chemical/physical composition of an oil makes it withstand racing abuse? The Motul site speaks of heat resistance, friction modifiers and low volatility. Those are effects, not causes.

 

[XS650]

Quote:
You don't need any thing more than Rotella for your grocery getters. For others that abuse their bike in Asia or Middle East then the best oil is not Rotella.


You caught yourself with that one. Rotella is better than the oil they are using.

 

[whitesands]

Originally Posted By: TucsonDon
Originally Posted By: whitesands
Not all motorcycle specific oils have more zinc than HDEO's...It really depends on which oils you're comparing...
Then that really begs the question -- what makes a motorcycle oil a motorcycle oil?

If there's no consistent structural difference, then "motorcycle specific" oil is simply an empty phrase.


Very good point...

 

[boraticus]

Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
Originally Posted By: boraticus

I ran air cooled motorcycles and atvs for many, many years lubricated with HDEO (mostly Rotella 15W40). No issues and no problems. Now if my engines ran fine for over 25 years using HDEO, why would I bother to pay multiples more for "motorcycle specific" oil? If the oil provides protection that well, what exactly is missing that expensive Hollywood oil will provide?

All my modern liquid cooled four stroke bikes get the same oil that my air cooled bikes/atvs did. Rotella T 15W40. I might try some Delvac if I can find it and the price is competitive. There's no way in h*ll that I'll pay the ridiculous premium for lesser quality motorcycle oil nor for premium quality motorcycle oil. Not a chance. Not brainwashed and don't have a vested interest to be a proponent of unnecessarily high priced designer oil.


You don't need any thing more than Rotella for your grocery getters. For others that abuse their bike in Asia or Middle East then the best oil is not Rotella. You have not a clue how other people use their bike and why they need the best oil money can buy. Have you ever try to pull a 1200lbs cart with a Honda Dream 100cc aircool engine in a 120 degree heat in a middle of a desert? It is not a pretty picture.

Do you think Motul is wrong? Look in the FAQ section of this page:

http://www.motul.fr/uk/conseils/index_moto.html



Hopefully, the majority of readers will be savvy enough to see that you're selling snake oil and will refrain from hemorrhaging excessive amounts of their hard earned cash for nothing more than a well spun advertising pitch. Now finish your kool-aid.

 

[heavyhitter]

The only bike I know of that can get anywhere near 20k RPM is a CBR250 wich redlines @ 19k RPM. That bike hasnt been made in the last 10 years. 99.9% of super sport bikes are under 17k redlines with some substantially below that.

Here is some food for thought.
RMP is'nt everything when it come to friction either. Example my bike has a redline of 5k RPM. I have 2 HUGE pistons with a LONG stroke. My bike at redline has a higher moving piston speed than a CBR929RR at redline. So even though the CBR is moving at more than double the RPM of my bike, my pistons are moving faster and longer with the potential for more friction generated.

My bike is also aircooled, and I have a wet clutch, all of this combined really test the limits of and oil's capability. Rotella T does a fine job at managing it.

 

[azsynthetic]

Originally Posted By: XS650
Quote:
You don't need any thing more than Rotella for your grocery getters. For others that abuse their bike in Asia or Middle East then the best oil is not Rotella.


You caught yourself with that one. Rotella is better than the oil they are using.


You don't know much about small underbone bike in Asia. In Singapore most hardcore scooter riders run Motul 300V 4T. These riders run their bike at the red line (11K rpm at 60-80 mph) all day every day.

 

[azsynthetic]

Originally Posted By: heavyhitter


My bike is also aircooled, and I have a wet clutch, all of this combined really test the limits of and oil's capability. Rotella T does a fine job at managing it.



Rotella T might do a fine job with your engine but there are motorcycle oils out there that will do a better job. The question here is do you want the best or just good enough? The only true way to find out is run both and take the engine apart and mike it.

 

[azsynthetic]

Originally Posted By: TucsonDon


Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
Shell has two oils that will give you either maximum power or maximum protection but not both.

What oils are you speaking of? The Shell MotoSport oils? I've looked and looked and the website seems to intentionally ignore the U.S. Not sure what Ducati owners do. Perhaps Ducati dealers import it specifically?

I'm still curious -- what chemical/physical composition of an oil makes it withstand racing abuse? The Motul site speaks of heat resistance, friction modifiers and low volatility. Those are effects, not causes.


Shell Advance Racing Engine Oil - 4T 20W-60 for Maximum engine protection with high power:

http://www.shell-racing.com.au/shell_advance_4T_20W-60_racing_engine_oil.html

Shell Advance Racing Oil - 4T 5W-20 for Maximum power with excellent protection:

http://www.shell-racing.com.au/shell_advance_4T_5W-20_racing_engine_oil.html

No oil manufacturer is going to give you their trade secrects of chemical/composition of their oils. You have to look at their records on the track and from bike OEMs to decide for yourselves. If Ducati and Honda can trust their million dollar bikes with this oil, so can you.

 

[azsynthetic]

Originally Posted By: boraticus
Originally Posted By: azsynthetic


Do you think Motul is wrong? Look in the FAQ section of this page:

http://www.motul.fr/uk/conseils/index_moto.html



Hopefully, the majority of readers will be savvy enough to see that you're selling snake oil and will refrain from hemorrhaging excessive amounts of their hard earned cash for nothing more than a well spun advertising pitch. Now finish your kool-aid.


If you can't afford the best then just say so, no need to get personal. I don't sell oil and don't really care what joe blow like you run in your scooter. Your opinion is worthless compares to Motul's.

 

[boraticus]

Originally Posted By: azsynthetic
Originally Posted By: boraticus
Originally Posted By: azsynthetic


Do you think Motul is wrong? Look in the FAQ section of this page:

http://www.motul.fr/uk/conseils/index_moto.html



Hopefully, the majority of readers will be savvy enough to see that you're selling snake oil and will refrain from hemorrhaging excessive amounts of their hard earned cash for nothing more than a well spun advertising pitch. Now finish your kool-aid.


If you can't afford the best then just say so, no need to get personal. I don't sell oil and don't really care what joe blow like you run in your scooter. Your opinion is worthless compares to Motul's.


I can afford any oil I want. I just don't throw money out the window needlessly. I'm not easily sucked in by glitzy advertising for products that will provide marginal improvements if any at all over what I use now.

I'm certain that 95% of the experienced riders will agree with me.

We're fortunate that we weren't abducted as children to have someone bore a hole in our head, suck out our brain and dump in a litre and a half of Motul.