Tesla vs Porsche...

Originally Posted by Ws6
Originally Posted by KrisZ
Originally Posted by Ws6
Originally Posted by KrisZ

But Ws6 said Teslas were junk, whatever that means. So how such a junk vehicle could steal customers from established and superior makes as Mercedes or BMW? And it has been doing it over several years already.


It means they use bargain basement components that then break and screw over the end user, and that they have horrible QA/QC, and push deadlines at the expense of doing things correctly. How can a junk vehicle steal customers? Easy. Perception is reality. You're a perfect example of that. CR gives them horrible reviews, the media is awash in their terrible QA/QC, and they have lost money every year they have sold a car. Yet here you are "It must be good!" lol!


LOL. Your ramblings lately are getting more and more ridiculous.
Not sure if I'm a perfect example because I don't aspire to own a tesla.

I have driven one though and I can tell you the experience is quite something else. Smooth, quiet with instant torque and power, no fake engine sounds. The interior leaves lots to be desired, but the driving experience more than makes up for it IMO. I can see why people like them.


Like I said, you're a perfect example of why junk like Tesla sells. You ignore facts in favor of feelings.

https://www.thedrive.com/tech/27989/teslas-screen-saga-shows-why-automotive-grade-matters
https://techcrunch.com/2019/02/21/t...ecommendation-over-reliability-problems/
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/10/business/tesla-elon-musk-outlook.html
https://www.greencarreports.com/new...is-terrible-but-does-it-matter-to-buyers
https://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-could-be-held-back-by-quality-issues-in-europe-2019-8
https://autoweek.com/article/green-...ineering-firm-highlights-assembly-issues








Munro & Associates charges $25k for a report. Wow. Imagine what consumers could do with that level of information ?!!
 
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Yeah, yeah. I'm just a typical, brainwashed Tesla fanboi.
lol.gif


We all have our biases, but the whole idea of the luxury segment is to drive people choices on feelings, trends, exclusivity etc. The established brands are guilty of many quality issues as well. It is, however, considered part of the game if one wants the latest and greatest.

With Tesla, you're getting the best in terms of electric drive train, battery, infotainment system and their poorly named autopilot. It comes at an expense if other things. But it's bad for some reason.

What can I say? People seem to love their Tesla cars despite their flaws. Just like you love your CX-5. Reading your posts, it would seem the greatest vehicle of all times, competing in both economy and luxury segments and WINNING.
 
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Originally Posted by KrisZ
Yeah, yeah. I'm just a typical, brainwashed Tesla fanboi.
lol.gif


We all have our biases, but the whole idea of the luxury segment is to drive people choices on feelings, trends, exclusivity etc. The established brands are guilty of many quality issues as well. It is, however, considered part of the game if one wants the latest and greatest.

With Tesla, you're getting the best in terms of electric drive train, battery, infotainment system and their poorly named autopilot. It comes at an expense if other things. But it's bad for some reason.

What can I say? People seem to love their Tesla cars despite their flaws. Just like you love your CX-5. Reading your posts, it would seem the greatest vehicle of all times, competing in both economy and luxury segments and WINNING.





Well, I do know the infotainment screen in my cx5 isnt some repurposed budget grade item that will fail in a few years, so there's IS that...

You asked how it sold so well if the Tesla was junk. Well, now you're telling me you already knew, lol!
 
Tesla is definitely not a junk vehicle IMO, they have a lot of production line issues that should never have or would never had happened if Musk had hired people that knew how to build a car from scratch on a production line with a well organized JIT component delivery system.
The technology in the car is sound as is the build and most people can get beyond that. My fear is if he doesn't get up to speed with a dealer and parts system and share repair information outside the network the massive resources of the VAG group will do to him what Walmart did to the local stores.
 
Originally Posted by Trav
Tesla is definitely not a junk vehicle IMO, they have a lot of production line issues that should never have or would never had happened if Musk had hired people that knew how to build a car from scratch on a production line with a well organized JIT component delivery system.

Interesting. 6 or 7 years ago Microsoft had me meet with the then Tesla CIO to discuss a manufacturing system. Anyone familiar with manufacturing knows the biggest headache and cost is materials.
Tesla uses SAP; Elon hates SAP. Everyone hates SAP; it is a necessary evil. There's those Germans again!
We were going to code our own forecast, operations/bill of labor and BOM system in the dot.net environment. Master scheduling...
I helped them build a dot.net interface to SAP for reporting.
They never made me an offer, but I probably would not have accepted. Tesla is a sweatshop.
All the people I know are gone. One is working for another EV company.

The NUMMI plant was highly JIT optimized. Truck beds arrived hourly(?) with painted beds in mfg line order. They were not even entered into inventory; they just fed the line ordered in the color of trucks on the line.
There is 1 truck that Toyota kept because it is a red truck with a blue bed or something like that.

I have owned 3 vehicles from the Fremont plant, 20 miles up the road from me.
1965 Olds 4-4-2 (FIL purchased new; I have build sheet), 1993 Toyota 4WD PU (350K miles, still in service) and our Model 3.
I toured NUMMI twice. I would like to see Tesla; they are ramping to 10,000 Model 3s per week to keep up with demand.

By the way, the reason for the huge mfg tents is because the over robotized indoor lines kept stopping due to robotic failure.
In Q3 last year Musk desperately put up the 2 tents. Staffed the new lines with people; hiring like crazy.
It saved the company. Q4 sold so many cars.
 
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If he get it right sooner than later he just may survive before the monster companies knock him on the head. Personally I hope he succeeds.
 
Originally Posted by Trav
If he get it right sooner than later he just may survive before the monster companies knock him on the head. Personally I hope he succeeds.

I feel like he's screwed consumers by failing to test his vehicles (model 3 braking) for the simplest of safety issues before release, nevermind all the other sketchy stuff. I hope he gets bought out and the excellent driveline tech gets put in decent automobiles.
 
Looks like Another VW group bust.

All that time, and money to come in 2nd against a much larger car.

Taycan even has a 2 spd transmisison in it and it sill can't beat the single speed tesla.

No charging network.

Any advanced driver tech?

Have we seen the crash tests yet?

The audi was already recalled for water getting into the battery.

We'll see if the miles even make the claim.



I expected more.


UD


[Linked Image]
 
Originally Posted by UncleDave
Looks like Another VW group bust.

All that time, and money to come in 2nd against a much larger car.

Taycan even has a 2 spd transmisison in it and it sill can't beat the single speed tesla.

No charging network.

Any advanced driver tech?

Have we seen the crash tests yet?

The audi was already recalled for water getting into the battery.

We'll see if the miles even make the claim.



I expected more.


UD


[Linked Image]


Let's also see what REAL testing delivers...

Also rest assured that the Porsche doesn't use budget consumer grade parts in their car like the Tesla does.
 
Like that "turbo" Porsche is putting in? LOL

We heard all the same "budget" diatribe about the audi.

Right now you cant go anywhere with it.

Its pretty much chained to your house or the nearest dealers charger.

for 80K more who even cares?

I can buy 2 cars for that price, one to tow the Porsche to a charger.






UD
 
Originally Posted by Ws6

Let's also see what REAL testing delivers...

Also rest assured that the Porsche doesn't use budget consumer grade parts in their car like the Tesla does.


What budget consumer parts are you talking about? Did the yellowing screen hurt you personally that much?
Tesla had that type of infotainment first with its huge screen. Most made fun of it at the time, now everyone tries to emulate it and very poorly at that. It was quite an uncharted territory and that's the risk being the first adopter that it there will be issues. Name me the suppliers that at the time had that type of screen available for automotive use.
 
Originally Posted by KrisZ
Originally Posted by Ws6

Let's also see what REAL testing delivers...

Also rest assured that the Porsche doesn't use budget consumer grade parts in their car like the Tesla does.


What budget consumer parts are you talking about? Did the yellowing screen hurt you personally that much?
Tesla had that type of infotainment first with its huge screen. Most made fun of it at the time, now everyone tries to emulate it and very poorly at that. It was quite an uncharted territory and that's the risk being the first adopter that it there will be issues. Name me the suppliers that at the time had that type of screen available for automotive use.



I dunno, I don't make cars for a living. I just know it sucks for those who got one.

Look, if you're a fan of wandering off into uncharted territory and using the wrong parts because it's all that's available, that's cool. I'd prefer a '68 Cobra kit car though, if we're going to play that game. Point is, you'll defend anything because you're just a fanboy. The data is in, and Tesla is not quality. What it IS, is new and exciting, and some people care more about that than well-made or quality.
 
Originally Posted by Ws6
Originally Posted by Trav
If he get it right sooner than later he just may survive before the monster companies knock him on the head. Personally I hope he succeeds.

I feel like he's screwed consumers by failing to test his vehicles (model 3 braking) for the simplest of safety issues before release, nevermind all the other sketchy stuff. I hope he gets bought out and the excellent driveline tech gets put in decent automobiles.


Going by that standard every car company with very few exceptions have been screwing the consumer for decades.
Lets be honest, cars like the Pinto and Vega should never have been turned loose on public and those two examples were from two of the worlds largest and longest in business car companies,

I wont judge the guy on the failures of a brand new never done before technology. I know a few guys with the S and they know and point out every flaw but all in all they love the cars. They feel the thrill of driving it far outweighs the flaws in it, I don't own one so I take their word for it. They are a nice riding very cool car though.
 
Originally Posted by Trav
Originally Posted by Ws6
Originally Posted by Trav
If he get it right sooner than later he just may survive before the monster companies knock him on the head. Personally I hope he succeeds.

I feel like he's screwed consumers by failing to test his vehicles (model 3 braking) for the simplest of safety issues before release, nevermind all the other sketchy stuff. I hope he gets bought out and the excellent driveline tech gets put in decent automobiles.


Going by that standard every car company with very few exceptions have been screwing the consumer for decades.
Lets be honest, cars like the Pinto and Vega should never have been turned loose on public and those two examples were from two of the worlds largest and longest in business car companies,

I wont judge the guy on the failures of a brand new never done before technology. I know a few guys with the S and they know and point out every flaw but all in all they love the cars. They feel the thrill of driving it far outweighs the flaws in it, I don't own one so I take their word for it. They are a nice riding very cool car though.

Paint, electrical wiring, NAV screens, brakes...this is not new. I can excuse the path forging with the drivetrain, but the car itself? Nah.
 
You have a point, on something this expensive it is almost unforgivable in my book too but at what point do you draw the line and say no I wont buy this because it has too many problems if it meets and exceeds all your other expectations? The door handles breaking off are a something else they complain about.

Porsche is not going to let bad paint defects go and the cars are some of the best built and most reliable cars in any class but earlier models like the 924, the 914 and even the 912 to some degree were terrible also and they met almost no ones expectations. I figure the free market will decide if Tesla stays or goes.
 
Originally Posted by Trav
You have a point, on something this expensive it is almost unforgivable in my book too but at what point do you draw the line and say no I wont buy this because it has too many problems if it meets and exceeds all your other expectations? The door handles breaking off are a something else they complain about.

Porsche is not going to let bad paint defects go and the cars are some of the best built and most reliable cars in any class but earlier models like the 924, the 914 and even the 912 to some degree were terrible also and they met almost no ones expectations. I figure the free market will decide if Tesla stays or goes.


I wouldn't buy a Tesla because it logistically fails to meet my needs, and I don't want to spend 6 figures on a toy unless it has real pedigree and image. (Viper, 911, etc.) So for me, the Tesla is just...why?
Others I bet are opposite, they couldn't care less that it's a steaming pile. It's new! It's different! It is awesome!
 
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