Tesla Truck will need power of 4,000 homes!

Originally Posted By: SHOZ
Part of the US Dieselgate settlement.


So it's govt picking winners again... Thought all this was supposed to be free market demonstrating the superiority of the EVs

Who are they going to bully into powering the charging stations.
 
Originally Posted By: SHOZ
Prime area for electric trucks, rich in power and infrastructure.

Yes, we're in the boon docks, as it were, but a lot of stuff is shipped from here and around here. And here, you won't be able to just space these things 800 km apart and have all go well. Take a look at our Highway 16 once. A lot of shipping is done along there, with plenty of bulk fuel stations, and one phase power as far as the eye can see. You won't be able to just have stations in Saskatoon and all will be fine.

If someone wants to run those trucks between Saskatoon and Winnipeg, or anywhere up north, I want a piece of the big rig tow truck concession.
 
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: SHOZ
Prime area for electric trucks, rich in power and infrastructure.

Yes, we're in the boon docks, as it were, but a lot of stuff is shipped from here and around here. And here, you won't be able to just space these things 800 km apart and have all go well. Take a look at our Highway 16 once. A lot of shipping is done along there, with plenty of bulk fuel stations, and one phase power as far as the eye can see. You won't be able to just have stations in Saskatoon and all will be fine.

If someone wants to run those trucks between Saskatoon and Winnipeg, or anywhere up north, I want a piece of the big rig tow truck concession.
So they need to upgrade the electrical grid or forget about it. Do you think Tesla trucks were meant to zero in on the truck traffic in Saskatoon?
 
Amusing, vid shannow, I like that guy mostly. The vid is designed more to sell cars and promote clicks more than anything.

Incidentally the "charismatic weapons grade non achiever" landed a used booster and completed another successful resupply run to the ISS yesterday.
Something no government with unlimited budget ever did.

storage lots are filling up with model 3's and there exists an entire tesla network chargers across our country -this was all also declared not practical and impossible but its here.


What will twist peoples arms into building/adding charging stations where gas stations are? Capitalism selling energy to travelers is a market.


When you remove the trillions in cost from our system spent now protecting oil - the infrastructure becomes instantly affordable and even cheap by comparison.A shopping mall has incredible roof space easily covered in solar for day time charging, and 20 tons of batteries fits in a relatively small footprint in a large warehouse for storage and or nighttime charging.

Is this truck wholly an of itself a complete solution - no of course not but its a good step in the right direction and will work as intended in its target environments.


UD
 
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125 trucks, out of how many in the UPS fleet? Probably for a television commercial then parked.

The Tesla fanatics jump at every little news blurb.
 
Originally Posted By: SHOZ
So they need to upgrade the electrical grid or forget about it. Do you think Tesla trucks were meant to zero in on the truck traffic in Saskatoon?

They're simply not going to upgrade the grid to place a couple power hungry charges every 50 miles or so, particularly with a declining rural population in the first place. Well, SaskPower will, if you ask them, with a mighty big cheque in hand, because they're not going to ask the ratepayers for that. Take a look at some of the locations of bulk fuel stations on Highway 16 in Saskatchewan. SaskPower will decidedly not be bringing industrial electricity capacity there.

The other option you mentioned exists - forget about it. That's been my point all along. Musk isn't trying to sell anyone that these electric trucks are going to be just good only for places with a good grid, good weather, good highways, high population density, and so forth. He's telling us these will be a drop in replacement for diesel trucks in all conditions. Musk is not one to admit limitations even when they're staring him in the face. So, yes, by his sales pitch, Tesla trucks are meant to zero in on the truck traffic in Saskatoon, not to mention La Ronge and The Pas.

Originally Posted By: UncleDave
Something no government with unlimited budget ever did.

Unlimited budgets are not conducive to recycling.
wink.gif
 
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: SHOZ
So they need to upgrade the electrical grid or forget about it. Do you think Tesla trucks were meant to zero in on the truck traffic in Saskatoon?

They're simply not going to upgrade the grid to place a couple power hungry charges every 50 miles or so, particularly with a declining rural population in the first place. Well, SaskPower will, if you ask them, with a mighty big cheque in hand, because they're not going to ask the ratepayers for that. Take a look at some of the locations of bulk fuel stations on Highway 16 in Saskatchewan. SaskPower will decidedly not be bringing industrial electricity capacity there.

The other option you mentioned exists - forget about it. That's been my point all along. Musk isn't trying to sell anyone that these electric trucks are going to be just good only for places with a good grid, good weather, good highways, high population density, and so forth. He's telling us these will be a drop in replacement for diesel trucks in all conditions. Musk is not one to admit limitations even when they're staring him in the face. So, yes, by his sales pitch, Tesla trucks are meant to zero in on the truck traffic in Saskatoon, not to mention La Ronge and The Pas.

Originally Posted By: UncleDave
Something no government with unlimited budget ever did.

Unlimited budgets are not conducive to recycling.
wink.gif

If there were no diesel stations out in that area I guess there would be no diesel trucks either. if you don't want electric trucks then don't build the recharging infrastructure. How much of the North American semi truck market does Saskatoon command?
 
Underachiever, Elon Musk is not. I'd hesitate to even call him a Rainmaker. It would be an insult to him.

Elon Musk is Hitler during Barbarossa. (not a moral comparison. A strategic one.) Science fiction accomplishments. Unprecedented victory. Looking golder than gold.

But like the Wehrmacht, the chinks are starting to form in the armor. Reach is being overextended.

He's not a very good car manufacturer. That's his track record. Is he going to be a good truck manufacturer? Probably not.

Does he spout a bunch of lies, consistently? Yes.

Like a James Bond villain, does he want to use his corporation and products to lock people into his will and vision, or else? Yes.

The Model 3 is still impractical and not affordable. The company doing both still doesn't make any money doing it.

A shopping mall has incredible roof space, but are the retailers going to be willing to pay out the nose for all of this to be done on their property? Does the mall just eat the expense? Easy enough to say, "Just pass along the cost!", once you ignore the fact that the people you pass it on to can just turn and run away.

Don't forget how capitalism works. What happens when the power companies wake up and realize that there's enough people reliant enough on the system that they can't just run away? Yup. You just exchanged one tyrant for another tyrant.

But all of that is in doing the fact that this truck doesn't exist aside from someone's imagination. An imagination that has been seriously faulty in recent times.
 
Originally Posted By: SHOZ
If there were no diesel stations out in that area I guess there would be no diesel trucks either. if you don't want electric trucks then don't build the recharging infrastructure. How much of the North American semi truck market does Saskatoon command?

But there are diesel stations out there, because diesel is refined here, can be transported by rail, can be transported by road, and can be dispensed with a pump that doesn't require SaskPower to install anything new. Note that at the family farm, there was a diesel tank there that was powered solely by gravity, before electricity even hit the farm. The diesel tractor could be filled without any electricity whatsoever. At an ordinary bulk station, you have a couple lights and a couple pumps - nothing logistically complex.

You keep diverting. No one said that electric trucks cannot work. No one said they cannot be charged.

Again, the point isn't how much truck traffic Saskatoon has. Musk claims this to be a drop in replacement - not to mention a huge improvement - over ordinary diesel power units in all scenarios. Clearly, that's not true.

You can strap the unemployed to trailers and have them pull them. Just because it's possible doesn't make it practical under all situations, now does it? And that's what Musk is trying to sell. He hasn't said that these are useful only in New York and California, or in high density population areas, or under certain climates. This is to replace all diesel power units and he claims setting up charging is a trivial matter.

Clearly, that's not the case, because I've shown where it is a problem. Saskatoon and Regina aren't significant portions of the North American trucking infrastructure, but you'd be surprised at the per capita amount of trucking going on here. There is a great deal of manufacturing going on here, and you only need to take a look at the major highways here. When there are ten trucks per one passenger vehicle during an ordinary afternoon, that's significant. A few weeks ago, I took an afternoon trip to the Manitoba border. I saw 5 passenger vehicles all the way there.

Before, you, too, were claiming that this infrastructure could be set up fairly trivially. Now, that the challenges are a little more apparent, you want to ignore the market segment. So, in other words, Musk's promises are hot air?

Now, if only he could capture that for power generation....
 
Again, happy for pundits to critique my gas station of the future thread...
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4577260/"Gas"_Statio

Note that was about charging regular vehicles, not 1.2MWh trucks at 2MW transfer rates, as promised by Musk, and not with self powered solar panels.

Please look at the actual physics of doing what this guy is saying his fleet will be doing in 18 months time, and think critically about it...just the "sun pewered trucks" from solar charging stations is bunk that should have you questioning his claims...

But, koolaid is a powerful thing.

Pick a Walmart, go on Google earth, measure it's roof area, and calculate the MWH that you can harvest from it in an average 24 hour period...simple math, and it's just not there.

Supercharge stations for the vehicles...yay, I can drive around anywhere I want...until after some number of supercharge cycles your transfer rate gets limited from 120 to 90 to lower to protect the batteries from the charging rate. The supercharge rate is unsustainable for battery longevity...use it like you want, and your 20 minutes becomes 35 mintes...how does that translate into his truck battery world ?
 
I think he is over selling the situations where the trucks will be useful, but almost any salesman does with any product... Maybe the trucks will be useful in the southwest? Or in Quebec with super cheap electricity. For long haul trucking they probably won't work well, but there's a lot of trucks running for a shift without going very far or fast.
Here's a possible future solution for future charging on the go. Wireless electricity transfer.
https://phys.org/news/2017-06-wireless-electric-vehicles-major-hurdle.html
I think something like this could have vehicles charging as they drive on major roads and then use the battery for roads without built in charging.
 
I literally do not believe that there is enough money in the world to transform even a decent portion of roads into wireless chargers.

The attempt would drive us into apocalypse.

Think Mao Zedong's "Great Leap Forward".
 
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
I think he is over selling the situations where the trucks will be useful, but almost any salesman does with any product...

He definitely goes overboard. None of the mainstream automotive or truck companies do this, but I guess that's the easiest way to be in the spotlight - promise the world. Of course, the more he promises and the less he delivers, well, goodbye credibility.
 
Originally Posted By: Garak
Of course, the more he promises and the less he delivers, well, goodbye credibility.


The more that he overpromises, the more his fans place in the "someone else will solve that later" category, not accepting that he's overpromising.
 
Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
I literally do not believe that there is enough money in the world to transform even a decent portion of roads into wireless chargers.

The attempt would drive us into apocalypse.

Think Mao Zedong's "Great Leap Forward".

Who knows how they would cost? 30 years ago no one thought the we would frack oil from shale, and here we are almost with energy independence.
 
Originally Posted By: IndyIan
Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
I literally do not believe that there is enough money in the world to transform even a decent portion of roads into wireless chargers.

The attempt would drive us into apocalypse.

Think Mao Zedong's "Great Leap Forward".

Who knows how they would cost? 30 years ago no one thought the we would frack oil from shale, and here we are almost with energy independence.


Which is why 30 years from now, I'm going to teleport everywhere......when I'm not flying my starship to Risa or Zegema Beach for a little R&R.

Like you said. They figured out fracking in 30 years, so 30 more years and I'm going to be chilling with bikini aliens on another planet.
 
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: Garak
Of course, the more he promises and the less he delivers, well, goodbye credibility.


The more that he overpromises, the more his fans place in the "someone else will solve that later" category, not accepting that he's overpromising.


Well, in the future, I'm going to be flying through the universe on a silver snowboard, while everyone admires my hard chrome pecs and abs.

Don't tell me I'm wrong or crazy.

People said that the Wright Brothers and Albert Einstein were wrong, and look what happened!

So, you telling me that I'm wrong is the exact same thing as telling the Wright Brothers and Albert Einstein that they were wrong.

Here comes a car. Don't forget to tell him to get a horse!






crazy2.gif
 
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Again, happy for pundits to critique my gas station of the future thread...
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/4577260/"Gas"_Statio

Note that was about charging regular vehicles, not 1.2MWh trucks at 2MW transfer rates, as promised by Musk, and not with self powered solar panels.

Please look at the actual physics of doing what this guy is saying his fleet will be doing in 18 months time, and think critically about it...just the "sun pewered trucks" from solar charging stations is bunk that should have you questioning his claims...

But, koolaid is a powerful thing.

Pick a Walmart, go on Google earth, measure it's roof area, and calculate the MWH that you can harvest from it in an average 24 hour period...simple math, and it's just not there.

Supercharge stations for the vehicles...yay, I can drive around anywhere I want...until after some number of supercharge cycles your transfer rate gets limited from 120 to 90 to lower to protect the batteries from the charging rate. The supercharge rate is unsustainable for battery longevity...use it like you want, and your 20 minutes becomes 35 mintes...how does that translate into his truck battery world ?


Its all repeat of the prior discussions - that all couldn't be done.

A 1-1 amount isn't there but a tremendous amount of offset is - who pays?
Same people that pay now either pay for diesel or pay for electricity.

The roadster was Kool aid-
The model S was Kool aid-
The X was Kool aid-
The supercharger network was kool aid - never gonna happen.
A self landing rocket was kool aid -
Model 3 was kool aid.

Ive been listening to people tell me how it can't be done since this guy started and so far the detractors are wrong.

Tesla is worth more than Ford. There is a lot of net worth for something that can't be done.

Battery pack is water cooled and thermally managed, so the effects of supercharging are moderated.



UD
 
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