Tesla pairs with Samsung on 5nm chip geometry

JeffKeryk

JeffKeryk

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It seems as though Tesla is so far ahead of everyone.
The difference is a car company vs a tech company.

FYI, 5nm is 5 billionths of a meter. This refers to the smallest traces (wires), or spaces, on the densest chip layer. AKA "tech node".

Tesla Samsung
 
JeffKeryk said:
It seems as though Tesla is so far ahead of everyone.
The difference is a car company vs a tech company.

FYI, 5nm is 5 billionths of a meter. This refers to the smallest traces (wires), or spaces, on the densest chip layer. AKA "tech node".

Tesla Samsung
Click to expand...
That is thin, having worked in defense industry even in there this would be thin.
 
Good luck. IIRC it was no small feat to drive feature size down this small. Making mask sets becomes non-trivial as the wavelength of the light used is on the same order. Plus leakages probably to dominate as what was considered an insulator is now not quite thick enough.

Not to dog on Tesla but this isn't Tesla. It is a fab that they are working with. The fab is working on the tech. I'm sure the fab like this setup, they can get someone to pay for the R&D, and for that alone Tesla can get some kudos. But Tesla isn't doing the heavy lifting here.
 
Tesla is not the first with a 5nm chip. Apple’s new M1 chip is already in the latest hardware. Taiwan Semiconductor makes the chip. The Musk just doesn’t want to get shown up here.
 
It seems we are approaching some real limits with regard to chip size. 3nm is coming too, but from what I read, quantum tunneling becomes a big problem.... However, the number of layers is probably where we will see the greatest improvements. A switch from 7 to 5nm means that the extreme ultraviolet lithography can produce more layers.
 
Cujet said:
It seems we are approaching some real limits with regard to chip size. 3nm is coming too, but from what I read, quantum tunneling becomes a big problem.... However, the number of layers is probably where we will see the greatest improvements. A switch from 7 to 5nm means that the extreme ultraviolet lithography can produce more layers.
Click to expand...
When I started in Semiconductor Manufacturing at Lam Research (plasma etchers), 65nm was the newest limit.
You are spot on talking about layers...
I was at Novellus Systems (deposition) for 17 years; Novellus bet the company on copper interconnects which changed the world.
It was generally considered that copper was not a viable material at these small geometries.
The late '90s and early 2000s were wild times. This is where the term "beyond the quantum" started being batted around.
That speaks to expanding the ideas of limits. 3nm ? It boggles the mind.
 
PimTac said:
Tesla is not the first with a 5nm chip. Apple’s new M1 chip is already in the latest hardware. Taiwan Semiconductor makes the chip. The Musk just doesn’t want to get shown up here.
Click to expand...
TSMC seems to be the savior for many in silicon - they along with Samsung are the leaders in sub-14nm processes. Nvidia uses Samsung’s fabs as well.

Right now, Intel is farming out their next Core i3/5/7 to TSMC. TSMC has the process, as much as Intel wants to keep it in-house at their fabs in Hillsboro, OR and Chandler, AZ. AMD was on 10nm, and they are now going towards 7nm. Intel was supposed to go to 10nm for the 10th gen Core family, but their process has too many issues. They are stuck on 14nm lithography.
 
nthach said:
TSMC seems to be the savior for many in silicon - they along with Samsung are the leaders in sub-14nm processes. Nvidia uses Samsung’s fabs as well.

Right now, Intel is farming out their next Core i3/5/7 to TSMC. TSMC has the process, as much as Intel wants to keep it in-house at their fabs in Hillsboro, OR and Chandler, AZ. AMD was on 10nm, and they are now going towards 7nm. Intel was supposed to go to 10nm for the 10th gen Core family, but their process has too many issues. They are stuck on 14nm lithography.
Click to expand...
2021 is gonna be big in SEMI. Chip shortages and new tech nodes mean equipment sales!
 
nthach said:
Right now, Intel is farming out their next Core i3/5/7 to TSMC. TSMC has the process, as much as Intel wants to keep it in-house at their fabs in Hillsboro, OR and Chandler, AZ. AMD was on 10nm, and they are now going towards 7nm. Intel was supposed to go to 10nm for the 10th gen Core family, but their process has too many issues. They are stuck on 14nm lithography.
Click to expand...
AMD was seen as a joke for a very long time and then they staged a recovery while carrying the dead body of GF on their back. going all in with TSMC has paid off big time
 
Last edited:
2EHA said:
AMD was seen as a joke for a very long time and then they staged a recovery while carrying the dead body of GF on their back. going all in with TSMC has paid off big time
Click to expand...
I bought a ton of AMD when they finally spin off their fab, and I'm still holding them. I am switching direction to investing Intel because it seems like they finally got someone competent as CEO, with ambitions, and the geopolitical safety reason means the world demand Intel to step up eventually and be a legit FAB eventually.

I think so far Samsung / TSMC will be the only 2 choice for advanced node sub 14nm for quite a while, plus GloFo for 14nm+. Eventually Intel will join in as maybe #2 #3 and the world will be satisfied with 3 competing sources, close enough to each other, in 3 geopolitical locations for safety.

Hopefully no scandals that forces Intel to fire the current CEO, Pat is a legit good guy and should have been the CEO in the last 10 years.
 
nthach said:
Apple’s all in with TSMC starting with the A7 and M1 SoCs.

Those used to be Samsung, they are frenemies.
Click to expand...
They used to multi-source to UMC / TSMC / Samsung on some of the earlier phone chips to keep things competitive among them. Eventually Samsung will catch up, but may miss the early profit boat.
 
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