Tesla Disrupts German Economy
- Thread starter Y_K
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Originally Posted by Alfred_B
The US market, while lucrative, is a legacy market. The future is in Asia and these countries are focusing on electric. Tesla knows this and are expanding there while the Germans have procrastinated.
Excellent point. It's easier for countries in Asia to leapfrog technology and they have done it in the past. Another point is population density. While some might argue the point, the US does not have the population density that Asia does and that ties into clean and available transit for all.
The US market, while lucrative, is a legacy market. The future is in Asia and these countries are focusing on electric. Tesla knows this and are expanding there while the Germans have procrastinated.
Excellent point. It's easier for countries in Asia to leapfrog technology and they have done it in the past. Another point is population density. While some might argue the point, the US does not have the population density that Asia does and that ties into clean and available transit for all.
Just a thought. Even the best Mercedes vehicles WON'T GO immediately when you step on the go-pedal. It's annoying as can be. In fact I can floor it in park, take my foot off the gas and place it flat on the floor mat before the engine responds at all. Ugh.
The Tesla cars are an order of magnitude more responsive. Quite simply, I very much prefer driving a Model S, P100d over any Mercedes. If you think this fact is lost on wealthy owners, you are incorrect. So while the Tesla interior is not in the same class as the higher end Mercedes vehicles, the driving dynamics seriously outclass Mercedes. An ever larger number of people agree and drive Tesla.
The Tesla cars are an order of magnitude more responsive. Quite simply, I very much prefer driving a Model S, P100d over any Mercedes. If you think this fact is lost on wealthy owners, you are incorrect. So while the Tesla interior is not in the same class as the higher end Mercedes vehicles, the driving dynamics seriously outclass Mercedes. An ever larger number of people agree and drive Tesla.
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4WD
$50 site donor 2024
I just rented a Jeep Cherokee with the most annoying (even scary in traffic) throttle delay I have ever seen.
And unlike the V8's I'm so used to, not much happening even when it finally kicked in.
And unlike the V8's I'm so used to, not much happening even when it finally kicked in.
The problem for other manufacturers is catching up.
Companies like Porsche and BMW have earned a legendary reputation; their engineering is incredible.
But look at the Taycan and Audi eTron, which were engineered in a joint effort.
They electrified their cars (but fell short of Tesla from a range and tech standpoint).
Electric drive trains can be put in pretty much any car, right?
How many cars, in real time, recognize and react to stop lights, construction cones, bicycles, etc?
The Model 3 is considered the safest car on the road, at any price.
Our car went from 0 to 60 in 5.7 seconds when new; an OTA update lowered the time to 5.3 seconds.
I can tell you the Model Y has tons of interest; it will be a major disrupter.
And no one else is even close.
Germany's problem is that cars are a major part of their economy.
Europe wants Teslas and GigaFactory 4 will be delivering cars early next year.
In Asia, the $2B GigaFactory 3, built in 2019, is capable of delivering 500,000 Model 3 and Model Ys per year.
Companies like Porsche and BMW have earned a legendary reputation; their engineering is incredible.
But look at the Taycan and Audi eTron, which were engineered in a joint effort.
They electrified their cars (but fell short of Tesla from a range and tech standpoint).
Electric drive trains can be put in pretty much any car, right?
How many cars, in real time, recognize and react to stop lights, construction cones, bicycles, etc?
The Model 3 is considered the safest car on the road, at any price.
Our car went from 0 to 60 in 5.7 seconds when new; an OTA update lowered the time to 5.3 seconds.
I can tell you the Model Y has tons of interest; it will be a major disrupter.
And no one else is even close.
Germany's problem is that cars are a major part of their economy.
Europe wants Teslas and GigaFactory 4 will be delivering cars early next year.
In Asia, the $2B GigaFactory 3, built in 2019, is capable of delivering 500,000 Model 3 and Model Ys per year.
4WD
$50 site donor 2024
And will be first to get another 100 miles of range via extensive R&D+experience
Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
The problem for other manufacturers is catching up.
Companies like Porsche and BMW have earned a legendary reputation; their engineering is incredible.
But look at the Taycan and Audi eTron, which were engineered in a joint effort.
They electrified their cars (but fell short of Tesla from a range and tech standpoint).
Electric drive trains can be put in pretty much any car, right?
How many cars, in real time, recognize and react to stop lights, construction cones, bicycles, etc?
The Model 3 is considered the safest car on the road, at any price.
Our car went from 0 to 60 in 5.7 seconds when new; an OTA update lowered the time to 5.3 seconds.
I can tell you the Model Y has tons of interest; it will be a major disrupter.
And no one else is even close.
Germany's problem is that cars are a major part of their economy.
Europe wants Teslas and GigaFactory 4 will be delivering cars early next year.
In Asia, the $2B GigaFactory 3, built in 2019, is capable of delivering 500,000 Model 3 and Model Ys per year.
What I want to know is how much money and who did Elon pay off in Beijing in order to avoid the "joint ownership" corporate structure that every other automaker has had to agree to.
The problem for other manufacturers is catching up.
Companies like Porsche and BMW have earned a legendary reputation; their engineering is incredible.
But look at the Taycan and Audi eTron, which were engineered in a joint effort.
They electrified their cars (but fell short of Tesla from a range and tech standpoint).
Electric drive trains can be put in pretty much any car, right?
How many cars, in real time, recognize and react to stop lights, construction cones, bicycles, etc?
The Model 3 is considered the safest car on the road, at any price.
Our car went from 0 to 60 in 5.7 seconds when new; an OTA update lowered the time to 5.3 seconds.
I can tell you the Model Y has tons of interest; it will be a major disrupter.
And no one else is even close.
Germany's problem is that cars are a major part of their economy.
Europe wants Teslas and GigaFactory 4 will be delivering cars early next year.
In Asia, the $2B GigaFactory 3, built in 2019, is capable of delivering 500,000 Model 3 and Model Ys per year.
What I want to know is how much money and who did Elon pay off in Beijing in order to avoid the "joint ownership" corporate structure that every other automaker has had to agree to.
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
What I want to know is how much money and who did Elon pay off in Beijing in order to avoid the "joint ownership" corporate structure that every other automaker has had to agree to.
I don't know the politics either but I understand negotiations took years.
I think Tesla is the first "go it alone" car company in China, as you say.
Will they be able to keep their secrets? Who knows? Doubt it.
But they are gonna sell a ton of cars.
Once again, Elon Musk and Tesla have proven to be disrupters.
What I want to know is how much money and who did Elon pay off in Beijing in order to avoid the "joint ownership" corporate structure that every other automaker has had to agree to.
I don't know the politics either but I understand negotiations took years.
I think Tesla is the first "go it alone" car company in China, as you say.
Will they be able to keep their secrets? Who knows? Doubt it.
But they are gonna sell a ton of cars.
Once again, Elon Musk and Tesla have proven to be disrupters.
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Originally Posted by stockrex
If it is in the internet it must be true,
There was a 20/20 episode on how big businesses pay 3rd rate journalists to print stuff to use as propaganda
Ya know back in the day studies on the health benefits of hydrogenated oils (aka Crisco) were self-funded and the sugar industry paid for studies on the dangerous effects of saccharin (aka Sweet-n-Low).
If it is in the internet it must be true,
There was a 20/20 episode on how big businesses pay 3rd rate journalists to print stuff to use as propaganda
Ya know back in the day studies on the health benefits of hydrogenated oils (aka Crisco) were self-funded and the sugar industry paid for studies on the dangerous effects of saccharin (aka Sweet-n-Low).
Originally Posted by Cujet
...the driving dynamics seriously outclass Mercedes...
True. And if Tesla comes up with an equivalent to the wonderful MB Dynamic Seats in their vehicles... and a 4WD of Landrover... and dependability of a Landcruiser... both Germans and Japanese will have a challenging task.
Let the marketplace to sort it out. And a virus or two...
...the driving dynamics seriously outclass Mercedes...
True. And if Tesla comes up with an equivalent to the wonderful MB Dynamic Seats in their vehicles... and a 4WD of Landrover... and dependability of a Landcruiser... both Germans and Japanese will have a challenging task.
Let the marketplace to sort it out. And a virus or two...
Originally Posted by JeffKeryk
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
What I want to know is how much money and who did Elon pay off in Beijing in order to avoid the "joint ownership" corporate structure that every other automaker has had to agree to.
I don't know the politics either but I understand negotiations took years.
I think Tesla is the first "go it alone" car company in China, as you say.
Will they be able to keep their secrets? Who knows? Doubt it.
But they are gonna sell a ton of cars.
Once again, Elon Musk and Tesla have proven to be disrupters.
From what I remember, Tesla was going to release their software open source.
Originally Posted by BMWTurboDzl
What I want to know is how much money and who did Elon pay off in Beijing in order to avoid the "joint ownership" corporate structure that every other automaker has had to agree to.
I don't know the politics either but I understand negotiations took years.
I think Tesla is the first "go it alone" car company in China, as you say.
Will they be able to keep their secrets? Who knows? Doubt it.
But they are gonna sell a ton of cars.
Once again, Elon Musk and Tesla have proven to be disrupters.
From what I remember, Tesla was going to release their software open source.
Originally Posted by Alfred_B
From what I remember, Tesla was going to release their software open source.
You are right, some is open source, not all.
Tesla releases more as time goes forward.
Musk also offered others to share Tesla's charging infrastructure as well.
For a price, of course.
I believe it was a huge (stupid) mistake for other companies to not use Tesla's Supercharger network.
1 - They are far behind.
2 - There is no standard so we all suffer.
From what I remember, Tesla was going to release their software open source.
You are right, some is open source, not all.
Tesla releases more as time goes forward.
Musk also offered others to share Tesla's charging infrastructure as well.
For a price, of course.
I believe it was a huge (stupid) mistake for other companies to not use Tesla's Supercharger network.
1 - They are far behind.
2 - There is no standard so we all suffer.
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Originally Posted by stockrex
If it is in the internet it must be true,
There was a 20/20 episode on how big businesses pay 3rd rate journalists to print stuff to use as propaganda
trust, but verify...
there have been dozens of articles, from various sources, all detailing the same thing over the last few years: Germany's economy is going to suffer due to Tesla. The auto industry accounts for 5% of the GDP of Germany--and then add in all of the business that service parts of the auto industry. Folks can keep their head in the sand if they want, as a lot of Germany's auto exec did for far too long, but the consequences are clear to anyone watching.
As far as Tesla in the US, it'll be interesting to see how they do once they introduce a car in a segment that's actually popular. I mean, no one buys sedans anymore, and yet the Model 3 has been popular. If they're able to produce enough, the Model Y and that crazy-looking truck will be game changers.
If it is in the internet it must be true,
There was a 20/20 episode on how big businesses pay 3rd rate journalists to print stuff to use as propaganda
trust, but verify...
there have been dozens of articles, from various sources, all detailing the same thing over the last few years: Germany's economy is going to suffer due to Tesla. The auto industry accounts for 5% of the GDP of Germany--and then add in all of the business that service parts of the auto industry. Folks can keep their head in the sand if they want, as a lot of Germany's auto exec did for far too long, but the consequences are clear to anyone watching.
As far as Tesla in the US, it'll be interesting to see how they do once they introduce a car in a segment that's actually popular. I mean, no one buys sedans anymore, and yet the Model 3 has been popular. If they're able to produce enough, the Model Y and that crazy-looking truck will be game changers.
And some folks in Manchester were bidding wrong ways:
https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...ment-accused-bungling-bid-bring-17807743
Yet, nobody touches upon environmental damage any more.
https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...ment-accused-bungling-bid-bring-17807743
Yet, nobody touches upon environmental damage any more.
The car manufacturing slump as a result of weak sales of German made cars is real.
The cause of the slump can be debated.
The cause of the slump can be debated.
Originally Posted by SeaJay
The car manufacturing slump as a result of weak sales of German made cars is real.
The cause of the slump can be debated.
you can debate anything, but if a player that didn't previously exist enters the market and this large a percentage of sales, I think you'd have a hard time arguing that it didn't have a very significant impact. Sure, some Tesla buyers may have not purchased anything at all, but any reasonable person would look at the numbers and hypothesize that those sales must be coming from somewhere...
Of course, this excludes the X-series and G-series from BMW and Mercedes. Once the Model Y hits and starts competing with the luxury German CUV/SUV's, the pain felt is probably going to be a lot greater.
![[Linked Image]](https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/attachments/usergals/2020/02/full-30430-41665-tesla_model_3_small_midsize_luxury_cars_jan_nov_2019_usa_sales_cleantechnica.png "[Linked Image]")
The car manufacturing slump as a result of weak sales of German made cars is real.
The cause of the slump can be debated.
you can debate anything, but if a player that didn't previously exist enters the market and this large a percentage of sales, I think you'd have a hard time arguing that it didn't have a very significant impact. Sure, some Tesla buyers may have not purchased anything at all, but any reasonable person would look at the numbers and hypothesize that those sales must be coming from somewhere...
Of course, this excludes the X-series and G-series from BMW and Mercedes. Once the Model Y hits and starts competing with the luxury German CUV/SUV's, the pain felt is probably going to be a lot greater.
Originally Posted by JOD
Originally Posted by SeaJay
The car manufacturing slump as a result of weak sales of German made cars is real.
The cause of the slump can be debated.
you can debate anything, but if a player that didn't previously exist enters the market and this large a percentage of sales, I think you'd have a hard time arguing that it didn't have a very significant impact. Sure, some Tesla buyers may have not purchased anything at all, but any reasonable person would look at the numbers and hypothesize that those sales must be coming from somewhere...
Of course, this excludes the X-series and G-series from BMW and Mercedes. Once the Model Y hits and starts competing with the luxury German CUV/SUV's, the pain felt is probably going to be a lot greater.
Keep in mind that with the Tesla had started taking orders for the Model 3 approx 1 yr prior to delivering the first car. The true test will be YOY numbers. Especially with their limited exterior (5 options) and interior (B or W) color palettes.
Originally Posted by SeaJay
The car manufacturing slump as a result of weak sales of German made cars is real.
The cause of the slump can be debated.
you can debate anything, but if a player that didn't previously exist enters the market and this large a percentage of sales, I think you'd have a hard time arguing that it didn't have a very significant impact. Sure, some Tesla buyers may have not purchased anything at all, but any reasonable person would look at the numbers and hypothesize that those sales must be coming from somewhere...
Of course, this excludes the X-series and G-series from BMW and Mercedes. Once the Model Y hits and starts competing with the luxury German CUV/SUV's, the pain felt is probably going to be a lot greater.
Keep in mind that with the Tesla had started taking orders for the Model 3 approx 1 yr prior to delivering the first car. The true test will be YOY numbers. Especially with their limited exterior (5 options) and interior (B or W) color palettes.
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Tesla does not have a demand problem; they have a production problem. They sell every Model 3 they can build.
With all the back east and overseas deliveries, buyers around here are waiting for a month or more for their cars.
That's why they opened GigaFactory 3 and are breaking ground on GigaFactory 4.
If you don't believe me, check out the prices for used Model 3s.
Or check the number of open jobs at Tesla.
German car makers would love to have this problem...
With all the back east and overseas deliveries, buyers around here are waiting for a month or more for their cars.
That's why they opened GigaFactory 3 and are breaking ground on GigaFactory 4.
If you don't believe me, check out the prices for used Model 3s.
Or check the number of open jobs at Tesla.
German car makers would love to have this problem...
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Originally Posted by SeaJay
The car manufacturing slump as a result of weak sales of German made cars is real.
The cause of the slump can be debated.
Car manufacturers know the cause.
The car manufacturing slump as a result of weak sales of German made cars is real.
The cause of the slump can be debated.
Car manufacturers know the cause.
