Teaching to drive standard

The other day I was teaching the GF to drive stick on my Corolla 1ZZ-FE 5speed. Yeah I know [Eek!] [Big Grin] She gently stalled the car "many" times, and several times she lugged the car to the point of audible detonation. What, if any, damaged would or could I expect? I honeslty don't think it will have any serious detrimental effects, but I am just a tad curious. Any stick drivers out there with experience in long term reliablity after learning to drive standard? Put my mind at ease please.
 
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2,324
Location
Baltimore, MD
I learned on a shadow with 125000ish miles on it. I then proceded to beat the snot out of it til 142000ish miles. Original clutch, never had a problem with it, except when the computer died, but thats not related. [ April 03, 2006, 10:57 PM: Message edited by: racer12306 ]
 
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22,188
Location
Colorado Springs
I wouldn't worry about it. I'd be more worried if you gave it to someone that was dropping it from 6,000 rpm from a standstill. That would do damage. She "may" have taken .00000000000000000000000000000000000000000001 of the main/thrust bearings etc. etc. etc. No biggie. I used to work for a courier service that had Toyota trucks with manuals. You want to talk about lugging? [Eek!] I guy I worked with would CONSTANTLY use 2nd gear from practically a standstill. Trucks were generally driven like it was the Daytona 500. 300,000 + miles and they hardly used a drop of oil and ran like new. They were maintained very well though. I say, forgetaboutit. [Cheers!]
 
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1,381
Location
Southeast Kentucky
I wouldn't worry about it. You'd have to abuse one more than that to cause a problem. I also gave my wife her first lesson driving a manual today, in a Ford Ranger 4x4 no less. She did great, only stalled it once in 15 minutes of driving. The key? Baby steps. I first explained to her that a clutch does not 'just' engage at some point, but is a gradual thing and requires smoothness and gradual pedal release. Also, we stayed in the neighborhood while it was quiet (before school let out) and I did not have her do anything today except start and stop in first gear. You can overwhelm a newbie if you throw too much at them.
 
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3,833
Location
NEPA
OT, but I've tought a lot of people to drive manual. My new method is not to make them pull away clean, but try to let the clutch out and push it right back in after it catches. It gives them the ability to modulate it, rather than pop it out. They never seem to let it out smooth, they jerk it out right as it catches...no matter how many times you tell them not to. This method is the answer to that. Also, it's simple to say 1st=10mph, 2nd=20mph, 3rd=30mph and so on.
 
Smooth clutch engagement is the first skill to learn. Auto-Union is right on target with his technique. I've taught the same thing many times myself. The problem noobs have with jerking the clutch is simple physics, by the way. It has to do with the mass of the left foot and leg, and the noob's lack of learned anticipation of clutch engagement and the consequential acceleration and change in acceleration. Basically it's this: as the clutch engages, the car experiences a relatively high "jerk" which is an elevator-industry term for the first derivative of acceleration (the third derivative of position for those counting). The "jerk" causes the car to leap forward, while the noob's left leg and foot are "left behind" (i.e. the car, seat, noob's body, etc. are moving and accelerating forward, but the leg and foot, being hinged and flexible, aren't). Well, the consequence of the lag in leg position is that the clutch pedal is jerked rapidly rearward relative to car position thereby causing rapid clutch engagement. Eventually, the noob learns to compensate for the momentary da/dt and hold his/her leg steady when the clutch first engages, producing a smooth engagement. Now think about stalling. The exact opposite effect is happening on the throttle. While the left leg is engaging the clutch too rapidly, the right leg, also being "left behind" is closing the throttle at the same moment. Again, with enough practice and learning to anticipate the da/dt, the right foot learns to maintain pressure on the gas to maintain rpm through the period of clutch engagement. If you think about all of the above, the wisdom of teaching gentle clutch engagement, then immediately disengagement becomes immediately apparent. Repeating and learning to deal with that startup transient is the key to learning to shift smoothly. I'll leave it up to the interested student to draw appropriate freebody diagrams with all appropriate force and acceleration vectors. There will be a quiz.
 
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1,292
Location
Western Washington
I had my brother look at the howstuffworks.com manual transmission article. He read through that, then went out and learned to drive a stick that day with absolutely no problem. He was a natural. I on the other hand, learned from my mom. I tried for several days to learn, and couldn't get anywhere. Finally, I gave up. Several weeks later, I had a dream that I was driving a stickshift around town. The next day, I got into the car and could drive the stick with no problem at all. It's weird, but I think it's a cool story...
 
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661
Location
Bosphoria
^That's what REM does. Isn't it amazing! I get the best points in the design classses where the ideas was in my dreams. But you won't dream the right thing if you don't work enough. I learned to ride bicycle myself.
 
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871
Location
virginia
I tried to teach my wife to drive a manual and well after 3 hours of whiplash. I said dont worry about it and got an auto dakota. she I swear cant not be taught. I have taught alot of people to drive manuals with no prob. but her nooooooooooooo. the clutch would go before she would ever get it.
 
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3,435
Location
FL
When I was a little kid I had to ride around in a 1983 nissan sentra with my mom and dad while my mom learned how to drive a stick. Well it was terrible, I would come home and close my eyes and still feel myself jerking. That went on for a pretty long time before she was really good at driving a stick. Well that was a new car, they got it with about 3 miles on it that clutch lasted to about 70K miles then after that the next clutch lasted the exact same amount. It was a factory clutch and was driven gently so I dont think there was any real damage done by her learning. I think grinding the dears and the launches from man RPM's would do damage but not the "nornal" learning part . So just teach and try to enjoy! Oh the clutch on those cars are apparently a weak part. We talked to several other people that had bad clutches on the 83 sentras.
 
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3,833
Location
NEPA
GE, good post, it expanded on what I was too tired to finish saying. Where in LV are you? I'm just north in Carbon County. [Cool]
 

luvs2drive

Thread starter
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263
Location
Durham Region, Ontario, Canada
Well, I used to teach manual. I was an instructor, so I do know how....I was just worried about all the stalling and lugging. It seems she isn't ready to learn stick, and that is fine. It's not a big deal. Some people just have trouble with it. I think it may have been better for her to learn when she was younger. Now that she is in her mid thirties and used to atuomatics it will be harder to teach that skill. I'm in no way implying she is incapable, just that it will take more time. She was doing remarkably well by the end of 1.5 hrs, pulling away on slight hills. Her problem is not in the skill mastering, nor the teacher. [Burnout] It's her mind set!! The mind can be a powerful weapon against conquering new skills. I still love her to death. [HAIL 2 U!] And I'm sure my car will recover. It does seem to be getting that new clutch feel back. I guess I was just worried more in this case, as the car is very new and is less than a year old. [Smile] Thanks guys.
 
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2,287
Location
Middle of Iowa
I taught my wife to drive a clutch pretty easily. I actually made her learn how it worked, and why it was used before we got in the car though. She caught on pretty quickly except for starting up hills. I'll just say she has the knickname vroooom-screech from a couple of friends of mine. She does well now!
 

V1

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477
Location
Chicago, IL
Right on auto-union! The car is a very bad classroom. Too many factors in the car will narrow their perception of what's going on, and their ability to listen. Just like with pilots; they get ground instruction first because the airplane is a very expensive classroom. There is just too much to concentrate on to hear what's being said. Always instruct the student before getting in the car. That gives them a chance to understand what you tell them. When they finally understand the concepts, then have them apply what they learned in the car to build experience.
 
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2,230
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Southern Ontario
quote:
Originally posted by GeneralEclectic: ....the car experiences a relatively high "jerk" which is an elevator-industry term for the first derivative of acceleration (the third derivative of position for those counting). for the momentary da/dt...
Dear GE, As a teacher of AP Calculus I am impressed to see the reference to "the third derivative of position" on BITOG! [bowdown]
 
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249
Location
SC
It also helps if the engine/clutch is warmed up. The car won't bog as easily if they let the clutch out and do not give it enough gas.
 
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