Tapped pan bolt for return?

[JohnStra]

I'm installing a gulfcoast bypass (oil) filter on my Cummins next week and I'm looking for suggestions how to return the oil. GC recommends tapping the oil pan, but I REALLY REALLY don't want to do that.

I wish I could find an unpressurized port on the block to return through but so far I haven't been able to find one.

I've heard of some companies selling tapped oil pan bolts. Does anyone know where I can get one of these?

I have the 12-valve Cummins which doesn't have the oil fill cap on the valve cover like the new ones. I don't know if there is a fill cap replacement for my engine that can be tapped.

Any suggestions are appreciated.

Thanks,
-john

 

[LateArrivalforLSU]

John,

I punched my pan this week and I can assure that it isn't as big of a deal that I myself made it out to be. If you are mounting your bypass high enough so the filter can drain back down into the pan after the engine is shut off you will be glad you punched your pan as compared to returning to the filler neck.

My return was to my filler neck and I got sick of changing out my roll of TP and having oil go everywhere due to the fact that I wasn't getting drainback at shutdown. I went out to my truck this morning and opened my Motor Guard and it was as dry as bone because all of the oil had drained back down into the pan (I was a happy camper).

All you need is a punch like this, a short handled hammer, and the hollow bolt and you are good to go. By the way, it might be helpful to drain your oil before punching your pan.

Punch a small hole in the pan to start with, and get yourself a really small wire about 5 inches long and poke in the hole to make sure there is no obstruction behind, then finish punching the hole out and screwing the bolt in. Best of luck to ya'....

 

[RalphPWood]

I had a machine shop cut a center piece to adapt the Perma-Cool universal 189 adapter to fit the Cummins. I used the adapter on a industrial 12 valve 5.9 at work. It works fine for the small MG-30 Motor Guard but it probably wouldn't be a good idea for the big Cummins Fleetguard that I put on the 8.3 Cummins.
The LF-750 is an excellent filter but it holds about 4 gallons of oil. When you first start the engine you have 4 gallons of air that is going thru the full flow filter and into the bearings. It is better to pump the air into the crankcase. In the 8.3 I got lucky. There is a large fill neck on the lower left hand side of the engine. I installed a self tapping hollow bolt in it. We normally use the fill cap in the valve cover to add oil. I adapted the LF-750 to take two rolls of Kleenex Viva and three rolls of Scott TP. I put a 1/16" orifice at the inlet so that the filter won't take all the oil the pump can put out until the filter gets full. Also the filter orifice is sized for a large engine and is at the outlet. Every time I send a sample to the lab the oil is cleaner. A filter that takes three rolls of TP and two rolls of paper towels can kick butt. It takes someone like me to set at the table and roll three rolls of TP together. The stock element is the LF_750 A which is shredded newspapers and wood chips. That might be the way for people to go that have a new Dodge Cummins that worry about the warranty. You have a Fleetguard filter with a Fleetguard element. When the warranty is over you could instal the paper towel kit. The Fleetguard has a secondary filter built into the element. I installed a hydraulic 25 micron sintered bronze filter in the outlet. The selftapping hollow bolt shouldn't cause a warranty problem. I wouldn't take a bad engine back to the dealer with a sandwich adapter or a remote filter mount. The 12 valve has an internal relief valve. It will get oil no matter what you put on it but I wouldn't push my luck. Don't give these people an excuse to not honor the warranty.
I have been known to use a saddle valve on the turbo return tube less the valve. I started to put a self tapping bolt in a Ford Splash V6. It wouldn't work because the pan was aluminum. I punched the valve cover as near the fill cap as I could. That would have been a good one for a sandwich adapter.
You do what you gotta do.

Ralph

 

[Jim 5]

I was checking out a bypass website and the guy used a banjo-bolt and banjo-fitting on the end of a return hose into the drain bolt hole on the oil pan.

Banjo bolts/fittings are considered very reliable and are used on things like brake lines. I think it was the puradyn site.

I've seen another on this board suggest a fram suredrain set-up. I'd feel safer with a banjo bolt/line set-up. All you need is a banjo bolt the same size as your drain bolt, a banjo fitting and some high pressure oil resistant hose. I think I am going this route when I get around to installing a Motorguard.

Good luck and please post install pics once you figure this out!

Jim

 

[RalphPWood]

Whatever works. The self tapping hollow bolts have been around a long time and are proven. When I started with Frantz and Motor Guard we mostly had American cars and VW Beetles. We had a 3/8" hollow bolt to replace a intake manifold cap screw. That returned the oil to the valley with the lifters on GM and Chrysler V8s. Some times you could replace a fuel pump bolt with a hollow bolt. Some timing chain covers had 5/16" bolts that could be replaced with a 5/16" hollow bolt. When Frantz came out with two port sandwich adapters I thought it was the best thing since sliced bread.
I did a fleet of 7.3 Powerstrokes when I was installing filters. Tey have a 3/8" pipe plug just to the rear of the full flow filter in the bottom of the engine skirt. I wouldn't want to return the oil to the bottom of the oil pan unless it was well protected. The ideal way to return the oil to the oil pan is slightly above the oil level so that air can enter the hose and allow the oil to drain from the filter good.
On my 6.9 Ford diesel I used a self taping hollow bolt in the fill neck. It is a little too high for the Motor Guard to drain. I will change it to the oil pan.
I just got a call from a guy that just bought a old Chrysler Imperial with a Frantz adapter replacing the full flow filter. The clean oil is returned to the oil pan thru a self tapping hollow bolt in the oil pan. He was concerned that the car didn't have a full flow filter. The Frantz was upside down. I think I would have found a way to put the finter right side up. Frantz recommended that the filter be upside down on the VW Beetle so that it wouldn't drain. I always installed the Motor Guards tilted on the Beetle. One for the lube oil and one for the gasoline. The Motor Guard being a compressing type filter didn't have much free oil to drain back. It's a lot more complicated these days. You just have to look them over and do what you gotta do.
I have been kicking around the idea of putting a tee in the oil line going to or from the oil cooler to get pressure for the Motor Guard MG-30 and returning the clean ATF to the transmission oil pan with a self tapping hollow bolt. I could install a .040 orifice at the outlet.
Transmissions sometimes have large chunks that might clog the small orifice at the inlet. They are using 1/2" and 5/8" cooling lines on these new trucks and the restrictor orifice is for 3/8" and smaller fluid lines. I need a system that will cover all of them.

Ralph

 

[acewiza]

Ralph, don't know if I did someting unusual or not, but I used a tee from the cooler lines on all four of my vehicles with lube oil Motoguards and they seem to be working great like that.

I got the notion of upgrading the lube systems on everything I own after I recently decided I wasn't buying any more vehicles in the foreseeable future. That involved installing oil coolers, tranny coolers and eventually bypass filters tee'd off the cooler lines.

Paul

 

[simple_gifts]

quote:

---

Originally posted by JohnStra:
I REALLY REALLY don't want to do that.

I wish I could find an unpressurized port on the block to return through but so far I haven't been able to find one.

---

OilGuard has an adapter that replaces the oil drain plug. From their site

For the optional pan return: Install the special oil drain plug into the oil pan in place of the original drain plug.

It works, I have one. It has 2 holes, one to install a fitting for the bypass return, and 1 to install a plug, to be removed to drain oil. YOU DO NOT HAVE TO REMOVE the bypass fitting or this adapter to drain oil

 

[RalphPWood]

If your filter gets hot and you aren't starving anything of oil it will work. With my first ATF filter job I looked in a Motors Repair Manual and found a test plug with about 80 psi on a 61 Buick Dynaflow. I returned the clean fluid to the oil pan with a self tapping hollow bolt.
I just had an interesting talk with one of the founders of Motor Guard. He is the guy that invented the self tapping hollow bolt. He was an engineer for Frantz at the time. He left Frantz and helped get Motor Guard started. He didn't like the design of the Frantz.
He knew the history of TP filters. He said TP filters came out in the 20s and were bought out by Shell Oil. When they came out in the 30s Chrysler bought them out.
He was excited about someone bringing back the lube oil filters. He quizzed me about what I was doing with the internal parts. I thought all those guys were gone noe but he is only 70 years old. He went from Motor Guard to Boeing.

Ralph

 

[JohnStra]

Ralph - Can you explain what you mean about the filter being hot and not starving anything of oil? What do you consider the drawbacks/risks to returning via a custom drain plug versus a self tapping hollow bolt.

I'm going with a gulfcoast filter on my Ram and I ordered one of the drain plugs from oilguard today.

-john

 

[RalphPWood]

Hi John,

If your filter is getting hot it means oil is going thru the element. The orifice keeps all of the oil pressure from being taken by the filter. It doesn't matter where you return the oil to the oil pan as long as you don't interfere with the crankshaft. I would prefer to return the oil to the oil pan thru a self tapping hollow bolt just above the oil level. I don't really care that someone else might want to return the oil below the oil level. If you are using the little filter under the hood and it drains good at shut down you returned the oil to the right place. The Motor Guard doesn't make large filters, I chose to modify the big Cummins Fleetguard LF-750 to take papere towels and TP with a miniature hydraulic secondary filter to remove any paper fibers that I might generate rolling the big element and perforating the center core. Cummins Fleetguard has the secondary filter in the shredded newspaper element.
I don't care for using sock elements. I would rather buy the TP and paper towels off the shelf. The Motor Guard and the Frantz filter have never had a tissue migration problem but I always use the TP filters for a primary filter for fuel. I have used TP filters since 1963 and must admit that I am partial to them.
One customer with a Motor Home tells me there is a fitting in his 12 valve oil pan. I see this on industrial Cummins engines of the small variety. I try to use sandwich adapters whenever I can for small filters. A guy stopped by awhile back to show me how he installed his Motor Guard on his Cummins. It was the newer model engine. He got pressure from the plug in the filter mount and returned the oil straight into the side of the valve cover. He found a place for the filter near the full flow filter. What ever works.
Thinking about downsizing the Fleetguard element to take two rolls of big roll paper towels. That will take the Dodge 20,000 miles instead of 30,000. It's a lot easier to roll two rolls of paper towels. 20,000 miles is far enough. It makes a perfect marine fuel filter because it is the most positive of the paper towel filters and has a large surface area.

Ralph

 

[OffOrWFO]

There should be other options on 12v cummins. I belive there are two spots to return oil to. They are on the right side below the turbo. One is used by the turbo for a return. You could T into that.

 

[slalom44]

If you want to replace the drain plug, here's what I did:

I picked up a 6AN Male x metric male fitting (for a Honda) from this site: http://64.202.180.37/files/un816.pdf
I attached a 6AN female fitting to this, attached to a hydraulic hose. It's easy to remove, and fits great.

Before I had this setup, I temporarily used a Frame Sure-Drain fitting. It comes with a nipple to attach a hydraulic hose with a hose clamp. I had it on there for a year and it worked fine, but I was concerned about how long it would hold up.

For my setup, this line was used to feed oil to my prelube pump. I had ample oil flow coming through the Fram Sure-Drain, so I didn't have to modify it.