Syria's airspace closing (for now)

[Jetronic]

Israel Shifts To Standoff Weapons In Syria As Russian Threats Increase - Breaking Defense

The change comes as Russia says it has stopped using a deconfliction line with Israel.

breakingdefense.com

The Buk system seems to work very well, had success in the russia-georgia conflict (shooting down 4 to 6 russian jets) and has shot down a Ukranian MiG-29, and an airliner. People always say the SAMs don't work though. I've always been convinced they work if operated correctly which is a big IF.

It appears the Israeli's are actually concerned the russians might fire at their planes. Isn't this what they have F-35s for? Or can't they use them in close vicinity of the S-400, after all that's the official reason Turkey had to choose between F-35 or S-400.

 

[GMAX]

Israel is going to have to take out some of these SAM sites first. Then use some of the low to the ground stand-off weapons to hit Iran in Syria.

 

[555]

Israel Shifts To Standoff Weapons In Syria As Russian Threats Increase - Breaking Defense

The change comes as Russia says it has stopped using a deconfliction line with Israel.

breakingdefense.com

The Buk system seems to work very well, had success in the russia-georgia conflict (shooting down 4 to 6 russian jets) and has shot down a Ukranian MiG-29, and an airliner. People always say the SAMs don't work though. I've always been convinced they work if operated correctly which is a big IF.

It appears the Israeli's are actually concerned the russians might fire at their planes. Isn't this what they have F-35s for? Or can't they use them in close vicinity of the S-400, after all that's the official reason Turkey had to choose between F-35 or S-400.

Turkey chose both at first.

 

[Jetronic]

yes, Turkey did, but was told to get rid of S-400 or no F-35. The S-400 could detect weaknesses in the F-35 stealth and inform the Russians, alledgedly. I thought that point was bogus, as there was an S-400 just across the border and close to israel aswell.

 

[daves87rs]

Going to be a mess….

 

[john_pifer]

Israel is going to have to take out some of these SAM sites first. Then use some of the low to the ground stand-off weapons to hit Iran in Syria.

The Russians aren't going to like that.

 

[xgmad]

turkey too controversial to be giving them anything.

I wonder where all those toyota trucks from here get all the way to syria and afganistan....

 

[GMAX]

The Russians aren't going to like that.

I suppose not, but it won't be the first time Israel has done that in Syria. They destroyed an S-300 site about a year ago manned by Syrian soldiers. If the Russians get involved in operating some of these SAM sites, then they are putting themselves in harm's way and should expect the consequences. Israel is only going after Iranian assets in Syria.

 

[Jetronic]

Not heard anything about any S-300 site getting destroyed in Syria. In fact, there's only 2 S-300 sites in Syria, one around Tartus to protect the naval base and one system that got delivered a few years ago but reportedly is still under russian control and hasn't been used against the Israeli's yet.

So got a link to that alledged S-300 destruction?

 

[GMAX]

Not heard anything about any S-300 site getting destroyed in Syria. In fact, there's only 2 S-300 sites in Syria, one around Tartus to protect the naval base and one system that got delivered a few years ago but reportedly is still under russian control and hasn't been used against the Israeli's yet.

So got a link to that alledged S-300 destruction?

That attack on the s-300 was on Sputnik News with a video. It was some time ago, so I don't think the URL exists anymore. I follow Sputnik News every day. it is a very good news site, with some propaganda mixed with some stories. I also post on their forums.

 

[Jetronic]

I remember attacks on the older s-200 systems, but also that those got repaired years ago and in fact it's one of them that shot the israeli F-16, the russian il-22 and alledgedly an F-35

 

[GMAX]

I remember attacks on the older s-200 systems, but also that those got repaired years ago and in fact it's one of them that shot the israeli F-16, the russian il-22 and alledgedly an F-35

The F-35 incident was pure propaganda, like the Donald Cook incident in the Black Sea, where the producer, on their web site, said it was not true and they never installed that Khibiny system on the SU-25 that was allegedly the source of the interference.

 

[Jetronic]

didn't hear about the donald cook.

the f-35 is written off, either by a bird strike or by a missile hit

 

[GMAX]

Who told you it was written off.? ( Russian propaganda?)Be careful what you believe. "The IDF confirmed those details to Israeli media outlets: “During a training sortie two hits were found on the plane, following to a collision with a bird. After an evaluation and assessment of the damage conducted together with the manufacturer – Lockheed Martin, the plane was sent to a normal maintenance and repair. It will return to full service in the next few days.” From the Avationist

 

[Jetronic]

national interest I believe.

 

[edyvw]

Israel Shifts To Standoff Weapons In Syria As Russian Threats Increase - Breaking Defense

The change comes as Russia says it has stopped using a deconfliction line with Israel.

breakingdefense.com

The Buk system seems to work very well, had success in the russia-georgia conflict (shooting down 4 to 6 russian jets) and has shot down a Ukranian MiG-29, and an airliner. People always say the SAMs don't work though. I've always been convinced they work if operated correctly which is a big IF.

It appears the Israeli's are actually concerned the russians might fire at their planes. Isn't this what they have F-35s for? Or can't they use them in close vicinity of the S-400, after all that's the official reason Turkey had to choose between F-35 or S-400.

I was in same class at the Air War college with the Georgian commander of air defense during that war. Their success is mostly attributed to complete disorganization by the Russian forces. Georgians were caught flat-footed too. It was complete chaos on both sides. If Russians attacked a bigger country at that time they would pay a serious price. Take into consideration that the Russian ministry of defense was so organized in 2008 that they attacked Georgia the same day they were moving MOD offices from one building to another. MOD completely lost connection to forces during that day.
I personally would not focus on the success of BUK as much as on other factors I mentioned. An airliner? I am not sure B777 is a really hard to take down.

 

[Danh]

yes, Turkey did, but was told to get rid of S-400 or no F-35. The S-400 could detect weaknesses in the F-35 stealth and inform the Russians, alledgedly. I thought that point was bogus, as there was an S-400 just across the border and close to israel aswell.

F-35s usually operate with add-ons that add to its radar signature, which I’d imagine is how they’re operated by Israel. The stealthiest version being reserved for very, very rare instances. If Turkey had both the S-400 and F-35 they could easily test one against the best version of the other and send results back to Russia.

 

[Jetronic]

It makes no sense to operate a stealth airplane with compromised stealth. Sure, for training flights it makes sense.

 

[y_p_w]

It makes no sense to operate a stealth airplane with compromised stealth. Sure, for training flights it makes sense.

They almost always fly noncombat with attachments (Luneberg reflectors) to boost their radar signature. Otherwise there might be some testing it out near the airfield, although I suppose a large radar array would stick out. They're also equipped to accept external stores and drop tanks if range or payload is the priority. They're not always looking to use the stealth capabilities.

 

[2EHA]

turkish UAVs made a mockery of the pantsir in syria and blew up more than a couple S-300s in armenia. syrian air defenses are not something you need to worry about, mickey mouse training may have something to do with it but their bread and butter pantsir is undoubtedly a piece of trash.