I would like to know if Synthetic oil or the Regular oil is really worth the difference in money 5$ veres $1.30 I talking any real trials and proof. I have 1 1999 truck Z71 and 1 2002 Buick car and 1 1993 van G20) Would like to use the same oil in all but no problem to use a different, I change oil every 5000 along with the filter. I drive each around 12,000 miles each a year except for the Van around 5000 miles I am retired and don't have a large income, we are talking $650 veress $175 for 3 auto oil change and filter in a year. which is a difference of $475 which could be a severial night out for dinner, or month worth of food. and would like to drive each of these Auto a least 150,000 miles each. If you have real info on this all would be appreciated. My best friend which is holds a deg. in Diesel Mec. Says Reg. and change every 3000 miles. Would like other opi.
Synthetic or Regular Oil
- Thread starter tzorro
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I say keep doing what you are doing, 5000 miles is fine on good pertroleum. Around here the quick lube places charge 49.95 for a Mobil 1 oil changes. One GM Quick Lube dealer charges 39.95 for same The state of Michigan light car and truck (3/4 ton and less) fleet (64 million annually) operates on the 5,000 mile oil change and no time limits. Most all the work is done by local vendors, e.g. quick lubes and dealers etc. Rarely does any engine damage occur and the vehicles often are replaced before 125,000 miles. I drive them for 31 yrs and never had one engine problem.
I am retired (early out)too, I use synthetic oils and lubes. I change my oil once a year which is usually about 15,000 miles on the 2001 GMC 4X4 and about 7500 on the 2002 Trans Am. I have a shop and the tools and equipment to do the work.
The truck sees a filter change around 7500 miles but the TA does not. I use all Amsoil products and have been since 1977. I do all the work myself so far.
[ March 01, 2003, 11:07 AM: Message edited by: Mike ]
Whether a car is still under factory or extended warranty is significant. Most manufacturers and extended warranty policies give their blessing to the use of synthetic oil, but still require the same change schedule as conventional oils. I see no reason for the added expense of synthetic motor oil in my 2003 Sonata as long as I still have to provide evidence that I'm changing my oil and filter every 3,000 miles in order to keep my 10 yr./100,000 mile powertrain warranty in effect. (Given southern California's climate and that half my driving would be characterized as, "short trips", I'm uncomfortable extending the mileage between oil changes beyond Hyundai's owner's manual qualifications for "severe service" usage.) In short, I agree with your diesel mechanic friend's recommendation.
[ March 01, 2003, 02:52 PM: Message edited by: Ray H ]
Well one thing is that I feel comfortable going the maximum "severe" milage before changing. I'm not saying that's for everyone. And it's good to get an analysis to confirm that. But an analysis I think is a good idea anyway with a new car to spot other problems inherent in the engine. One additional thing: Most people that change their own oil have two cars so oil receipts are no problem if you get my drift. ![[Smile]](images/icons/smile.gif)
TZORRO,
I'm an unsual oil sales rep. I don't recommend full synth's in an auto normally as they are not needed for standard engine applications. Myself, I don't believe that you get better protection from a synth oil over a conventional dino oil just because it is a synth base oil. It's got a lot to do with the additive packages used in the oils, many of which are not as good as what is used in some synth's but then there is some good mineral that do use a good package.
I started out to prove this by using my car, 95 ford escort, running one brand of oil, where the synth blend and the mineral oil both have identical additive packages.
I started with the blend which has 25-28%PAO synth base oil that is mixed with the mineral oil and ran it with a M1 filter for 4,000 miles. Sampled and Drained, then I switched over to the mineral counter part which is identical of the blend with exception that this has no PAO but uses the same mineral base oil as the blend.
Ran it for 4k miles with the cheapest fram filter available for my car and sampled.
What it showed was the mineral oil had lower wear numbers than the blend with the synth base oil. Now, I expected it to show simular but not better, but what I have come to learn since is that the cheap filter actually provided better flow(less filtration than the 14.00 m1 filter) so, it was able to provide better oil pressure to my bearings keeping a better oil wedge in there. This is one of the main things that contributed to the lower wear numbers.
So in a nutshell, you will not have a problem with a good mineral oil but as suggested by Al, I believe that you should at first, consider doing analysis so that you can qualify your drains with the oil you use to establish that it is providing you the proper service you expect with no surprises.
To see this little test I did on my car, here is the link. Topic: The Test Is Complete and here are the results. BTW, I just recently dropped the 15w40 out and am now going to run a 4k test with the 5w30 mineral based same brand oil with fram filter to see if that gives even better wear numbers than with the 15w40 fram combo.
I have run several vehicles past 100K miles, using both mineral and syn oils. I saw no advantage to using syn (other than extended drains), so I have now gone back to using mineral. The additive packages in todays mineral oils will keep an engine clean and protect it very well. In my humble opiinion, regular maintainence is more important than the oil type.
I am one of those crazy people who actually enjoys changing oil..... ![[Big Grin]](images/icons/grin.gif)
There is advantages to the full synth but only in relation to extended drains and extreme cold weather pumpability. As for relating wear protection against one or the other, I'm not convinced that there is an advantage. I'm taking this stance not from any "technical" data by oil companies/engineers but by standing back, looking at all the real world facts that we have been accumilating via oil analysis and such, and looking "outside of the box" instead of just looking at what its suppose to be. From what I'm seeing, I don't see where the synth itself is making the big difference. There was a bigger difference before the gf-3 oils but with the newer gf-3 oils, the gap of synth vers mineral being better in respect to quality of base oil, is closing more each time.
I see way too many people base their choice of oil by the base oil alone, with no consideration as to what additives are used and how this effects the base oils performance. You can take a full synth with a tbn of 12 and place it against a blend with a tbn of 10 and the 12 will drop out faster than the 10. This is due mainly to the additives used not the base oil so much. Again, when looking at an oil, you must consider not so much what base oil is used, but how good is the additive package. It's kind of like picking a movie based only on it's name, then find out that the movie didn't have any quality stars and a back yard producer. There's always the chance it will be good, but...
[ March 01, 2003, 11:37 PM: Message edited by: BOBISTHEOILGUY ]
I would imagine there are times when an expensive synthetic is warranted, such as cold starting in -20 degree weather and towing trailers often. But for average driving in average climates, I think a good dino, filter and 3-4K change interval is fine. That's what I've done for the last 20 years with no problems. ![[Patriot]](/forums/graemlins/patriot.gif)
Hard to tell. If you plan on staying with the 5K oil change it's cheaper to stay with dino. The only wild card is that you will have a higher level of protection with synthetic if bad things happen. Losing your cooling system comes to mind. The other reason to change to syn would be to extend your oil change interval upwards of 7K miles. I am also retired and those are the two reasons for me to use synthetic. I'm not really to the point where a difference of $50 per year for a car, truck and MC is a real issue. If it gets to that point - I will stop driving.
quote:So then the choice is clear.....choose a product with a good synthetic base AND a premium add package! Remember, for most of us, we are only talking about four or five litres of oil. I keep hearing this about it not being necessary to run a synthetic - why play around when you can have the best for the same or less? If you ran the numbers you would see that you would not be spending any more by extending your drain intervals out to once per year with the synthetic. (every 12,000 mi.) If you are paying someone to change your oil you will actually be saving money. [ March 02, 2003, 01:43 AM: Message edited by: Tommy ]
I see way too many people base their choice of oil by the base oil alone, with no consideration as to what additives are used and how this effects the base oils performance.
Personally I don't like to waste my time and money servicing a vehicle if I can use a product that will extend the miles and time I need to do this. I have been changing my oil 1 per year using synthetic oil for some 25 yrs and never once has it come back and bit me. Has been just the oposite, my vehicle have been in like new condition 100-150,000 miles later. They never use oil and not one of them has ever had the engine opened up for any reason.
It maybe costs me around $40-50 a year for oil which is about 15,000 miles on average, if I was to change every 3,000, that would be about 5 @ $25 oil changes for $125. A GM dealer here offers synthetic oil changes for $39.95 for Mobil 1 and $10 more if you want Amsoil. They have both in the parts department and their race store.
[ March 02, 2003, 08:57 AM: Message edited by: Mike ]
![[Wink]](images/icons/wink.gif){kind=icon}
[ March 02, 2003, 01:52 PM: Message edited by: YZF150 ]I have a simple question. How do you tell if an oil is Hydrocracked Group III, or a true synthetic such as a Group IV / Group V ? Is it as simple as looking for the word "hydrocracked"? Or, is there something more? Any other words used to describe the differences? Is the information on the bottle?
quote:Depends on application... as with anything. I will try to give a short response. Keep doing what you are doing, perhaps finding a little better Dino if you are not sure on what you are using. I would also consider changing Just my filter MId-way, and topping up to the fill line. If you can't afford the permium filters, buy the cheap ones in bulk(case) -ask for a discount it never hurts. If the car has 60K or less I would Do a flush on them, and every 30-60K depending on budget do another. Whatever the budget will allow, perhaps the favorite car or the dependable and gas economical one, I'd do an oil testing on them. Then you at least have some place to use as a base for your changes. IF you can, I would do either one per year, or at a mile marker like 60K 90K 120K... better yet on at least your favorite one I'd do two or three back to back, to set-up some sort of trend. But If you keep the oil changed, and flush the engine once and awhile and make sure the coolant system is working correctly (clean, without leaks etc.) you will do well.
Originally posted by tzorro: I would like to know if Synthetic oil or the Regular oil is really worth the difference in money 5$ veres $1.30 I talking any real trials and proof. --snip--.
quote:Same Question. Thanks! .
Originally posted by red2rebel: I have a simple question. How do you tell if an oil is Hydrocracked Group III, or a true synthetic such as a Group IV / Group V ? Is it as simple as looking for the word "hydrocracked"? Or, is there something more? Any other words used to describe the differences? Is the information on the bottle?
If you goal is 150,000 miles then you will be fine doing what you are doing. Any good dino oil will get you to 150,000 miles. You might consider sweetening your oil though with Lube Control and 132. You might want to run a bottle of Auto-Rx through the engine every 2 years to keep them clean.
You should also steep up your transmission fluid and filter changes. You should consider draining your trany fluid and replaceing the filters every 30,000 miles. It has been my experince as a Technician that automatic transmissions on domestic brands tend to go much sooner then the engines!
If you run dino your EGR will plug up every 50,000-60,000 miles. Your PCV valve will also gum up at about the same rate. You IAC will also carbon up. Your seals will harden up and start to dry rott buy 120,000. Your ring packs start to show how good or bad your oil is at about 25,000 miles and will be preety bad between 75,000 and 120,000 miles. The oil pick up screen can become preety blocked off by long term use of thin dino with long drains......Most all of these things are either preventable of greatly reduced with synthetic oils. So while I have no problem telling you that that your vechile can easily make it to 150,000 with dino it is easier to get their and beyound with synthetics. SO if you are going to run conventional try to run a premium conventional all oils are not created equally even in the low end.
[ August 30, 2003, 09:29 PM: Message edited by: JohnBrowning ]
Patman
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quote:I believe this to be true, as I bought my 95 Formula with 56k on it, and the EGR valve had to be replaced shortly after this. I figure the previous owner not only used cheap dino oil, but neglected the oil changes too since the engine was not in the best shape when I got this car, the valvetrain was ticking and obviously sludged up a bit. I think the new SL versions of dino oil are better in cleanliness than SH and SJ versions though (which would've been what my car was run on from it's previous owner) [ August 31, 2003, 05:43 AM: Message edited by: Patman ]
If you run dino your EGR will plug up every 50,000-60,000 miles
quote:hey al that's very true. I saw on the news the other day that there are more cars in US homes than their are drivers. I have two myself.
Originally posted by Al: Well one thing is that I feel comfortable going the maximum "severe" milage before changing. I'm not saying that's for everyone. And it's good to get an analysis to confirm that. But an analysis I think is a good idea anyway with a new car to spot other problems inherent in the engine. One additional thing: Most people that change their own oil have two cars so oil receipts are no problem if you get my drift.
![[Cheers!]](/forums/graemlins/cheers.gif)
quote:Ahhh, those words are pure music to a synth lover's ears!
Originally posted by JohnBrowning: If you run dino your EGR will plug up every 50,000-60,000 miles. Your PCV valve will also gum up at about the same rate. You IAC will also carbon up. Your seals will harden up and start to dry rott buy 120,000. Your ring packs start to show how good or bad your oil is at about 25,000 miles and will be preety bad between 75,000 and 120,000 miles. The oil pick up screen can become preety blocked off by long term use of thin dino with long drains......Most all of these things are either preventable of greatly reduced with synthetic oils. So while I have no problem telling you that that your vechile can easily make it to 150,000 with dino it is easier to get their and beyound with synthetics.
At 27,000 miles yearly, sounds like you do a lot of highway miles. If that's the case, what you are doing now with the dino at 5k is perfectly fine, IMO.
But with that many miles per year, looks like there is a LOT of potential savings on fuel expense here by switching to Mobil 1. And as Al suggested, that way you could extend your oil change interval out to 7k, maybe even 7500 mi. Heck, if it's that many highway miles, you might even safely stretch it to 8-10k. With fewer oil filters to buy and better mpg (and savings from the good old Mobil 5-qt. jug), you could actually come out ahead in over-all expenses from the dino you are using now.
[ August 31, 2003, 08:32 PM: Message edited by: Rexman ]Hey, someone here is looking to save money? Is it the guys with 140 quarts of oil stored (hidden?) and are "long" on motor oil?
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