Synthetic Comparison - Castrol and Valvoline win
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Originally Posted By: itguy08
Quote:
Testing was completed February 2013 by an independent, third-party lab.
Near 5 year old test results? Seriously? How much have these formulations changed in that time? Heck, Pennzoil no longer sells just "Ultra" as a Synthetic oil.
Very True. Castrol has definitely changed it's formulas lately (for the better, IMO).
The knock on Castrol used to be it's 'cold weather' numbers weren't great......the knock on Valvoline used to be that it was a great oil but not an extended OCI synthetic...these 'knocks' may no longer apply.
One thing I don't like about Castrol is that they use the name 'Edge' for two different oils so I'm never sure which one we're talking about. I think that's a poor marketing decision just like SOPUS using the same color bottles for all its oils....just like Lincoln using letters for all it's models (MKC, MKZ, MKX etc....) It makes it harder for the customer to know which is which.....
Quote:
Testing was completed February 2013 by an independent, third-party lab.
Near 5 year old test results? Seriously? How much have these formulations changed in that time? Heck, Pennzoil no longer sells just "Ultra" as a Synthetic oil.
Very True. Castrol has definitely changed it's formulas lately (for the better, IMO).
The knock on Castrol used to be it's 'cold weather' numbers weren't great......the knock on Valvoline used to be that it was a great oil but not an extended OCI synthetic...these 'knocks' may no longer apply.
One thing I don't like about Castrol is that they use the name 'Edge' for two different oils so I'm never sure which one we're talking about. I think that's a poor marketing decision just like SOPUS using the same color bottles for all its oils....just like Lincoln using letters for all it's models (MKC, MKZ, MKX etc....) It makes it harder for the customer to know which is which.....
Originally Posted By: njohnson
With the new Dexos 1 Gen2 oils coming out, it would be interesting if Amsoil would do the test again. We could see how the new oils compared to each other now.
Interesting, Amsoil just came out with new formulations as well. Time to throw out the '13 test and do another!
That said though:
Originally Posted By: PimTac
Originally Posted By: dnewton3
Show me direct correlation, and more importantly causation, between those tests and actual wear data from engines, and then I'll care.
Until that evidence is clear, it's just marketing hype.
Best post of this thread.
Agree, great post. This same logic also applies to specification and certifications - such as Dexos. Real world usage trumps testing/passing tests every time.
With the new Dexos 1 Gen2 oils coming out, it would be interesting if Amsoil would do the test again. We could see how the new oils compared to each other now.
Interesting, Amsoil just came out with new formulations as well. Time to throw out the '13 test and do another!
That said though:
Originally Posted By: PimTac
Originally Posted By: dnewton3
Show me direct correlation, and more importantly causation, between those tests and actual wear data from engines, and then I'll care.
Until that evidence is clear, it's just marketing hype.
Best post of this thread.
Agree, great post. This same logic also applies to specification and certifications - such as Dexos. Real world usage trumps testing/passing tests every time.
If I was bored enough I could also create bar graph documents touting my favorite brand as the best thing since sliced bread. Of course I would also use an independent lab run by my dog, professor Fido, to perform the testing. I remember back in the 1970's the store I worked in had a gear oil simulator comparing a synthetic versus a typical mineral oil. One spun easy and one spun hard. One was clear and one was medium brown.The owner tossed the thing in the garbage after he quit stocking the oil brand in question. My coworkers and I decided to do our own testing and broke the device open on the loading dock. I'm pretty sure the synthetic was baby oil and the conventional was black strap molasses, at least that's what they smelled like.
I have the new Amsoil formulation in my engine right now. Just waiting on the miles and I will do a UOA.
Originally Posted By: sloinker
If I was bored enough I could also create bar graph documents touting my favorite brand as the best thing since sliced bread. Of course I would also use an independent lab run by my dog, professor Fido, to perform the testing. I remember back in the 1970's the store I worked in had a gear oil simulator comparing a synthetic versus a typical mineral oil. One spun easy and one spun hard. One was clear and one was medium brown.The owner tossed the thing in the garbage after he quit stocking the oil brand in question. My coworkers and I decided to do our own testing and broke the device open on the loading dock. I'm pretty sure the synthetic was baby oil and the conventional was black strap molasses, at least that's what they smelled like.
And what have you got against black strap molasses?
If I was bored enough I could also create bar graph documents touting my favorite brand as the best thing since sliced bread. Of course I would also use an independent lab run by my dog, professor Fido, to perform the testing. I remember back in the 1970's the store I worked in had a gear oil simulator comparing a synthetic versus a typical mineral oil. One spun easy and one spun hard. One was clear and one was medium brown.The owner tossed the thing in the garbage after he quit stocking the oil brand in question. My coworkers and I decided to do our own testing and broke the device open on the loading dock. I'm pretty sure the synthetic was baby oil and the conventional was black strap molasses, at least that's what they smelled like.
And what have you got against black strap molasses?
Originally Posted By: PimTac
Valvoline always shows good results yet it gets tagged here as a cheap sodium based oil. There is a lot more to Synpower than sodium.
Yes there is. In the Valvoline Synpower 40/50 "MST" grades, they remove the sodium, add more calcium and other stuff and make the A3/B3/B4 Euro specs.
Valvoline always shows good results yet it gets tagged here as a cheap sodium based oil. There is a lot more to Synpower than sodium.
Yes there is. In the Valvoline Synpower 40/50 "MST" grades, they remove the sodium, add more calcium and other stuff and make the A3/B3/B4 Euro specs.
Originally Posted By: FlyPenFly
Okay actually this is a lot of propaganda for Amsoil but I actually really admire how well Castrol Edge with Ti and Valvoline Synpower do. They're cheap off the shelf oils you can get at Walmart for less than half the price of boutique oil but outperform Redline in things like TEOST. They also do really well overall in general. While they're not usually the best, they land favorably in almost all the tests. IMO, the ball bearing test is nearly useless as a measure of anything inside an ICE.
What the heck is up with Redline at TEOST?? I guess it achieves it's low NOACK by just turning solid instead?
The cost comparison chart at the end seems like total nonsense to me.
I avoid dexos1 if possible as TEOST precudes some very good antiwear compounds to achieve a pass - so - A Clean turbo bearing at hot shutdown and a seized engine. Not a compromise I'm willing to make. Somehow BP's Magnetec seems to get good power performance and a clean motor at the same time.
MAGIC!
Try QSUD 10w30 VS 5w30 the 10w is a absolutely stunning performer in a NA motor. It is NOT Dexos.
Okay actually this is a lot of propaganda for Amsoil but I actually really admire how well Castrol Edge with Ti and Valvoline Synpower do. They're cheap off the shelf oils you can get at Walmart for less than half the price of boutique oil but outperform Redline in things like TEOST. They also do really well overall in general. While they're not usually the best, they land favorably in almost all the tests. IMO, the ball bearing test is nearly useless as a measure of anything inside an ICE.
What the heck is up with Redline at TEOST?? I guess it achieves it's low NOACK by just turning solid instead?
The cost comparison chart at the end seems like total nonsense to me.
I avoid dexos1 if possible as TEOST precudes some very good antiwear compounds to achieve a pass - so - A Clean turbo bearing at hot shutdown and a seized engine. Not a compromise I'm willing to make. Somehow BP's Magnetec seems to get good power performance and a clean motor at the same time.
MAGIC!
Try QSUD 10w30 VS 5w30 the 10w is a absolutely stunning performer in a NA motor. It is NOT Dexos.
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Measure the dribble down to 6 significant figures.
At my age, I resemble that remark
Measure the dribble down to 6 significant figures.
At my age, I resemble that remark
How 'bout Japanese HI-FI in the late 70's and the low distortion race.
Focusing ONLY on steady stateh armonic distortion % Produced TERRIBLE sounding amps. You measure one thing but neglect the performance specs that correlate to GOOD SOUND and you end up with garbage product.
As an Engineer/Developer, Sometimes you don't know as you're not working without the industry "box" - Sometimes it just makes good AD COPY.
Focusing ONLY on steady stateh armonic distortion % Produced TERRIBLE sounding amps. You measure one thing but neglect the performance specs that correlate to GOOD SOUND and you end up with garbage product.
As an Engineer/Developer, Sometimes you don't know as you're not working without the industry "box" - Sometimes it just makes good AD COPY.
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Originally Posted By: FlyPenFly
Okay actually this is a lot of propaganda for Amsoil but I actually really admire how well Castrol Edge with Ti and Valvoline Synpower do. They're cheap off the shelf oils you can get at Walmart for less than half the price of boutique oil but outperform Redline in things like TEOST. They also do really well overall in general. While they're not usually the best, they land favorably in almost all the tests. IMO, the ball bearing test is nearly useless as a measure of anything inside an ICE.
What the heck is up with Redline at TEOST?? I guess it achieves it's low NOACK by just turning solid instead?
The cost comparison chart at the end seems like total nonsense to me.
I avoid dexos1 if possible as TEOST precudes some very good antiwear compounds to achieve a pass - so - A Clean turbo bearing at hot shutdown and a seized engine. Not a compromise I'm willing to make. Somehow BP's Magnetec seems to get good power performance and a clean motor at the same time.
MAGIC!
Try QSUD 10w30 VS 5w30 the 10w is a absolutely stunning performer in a NA motor. It is NOT Dexos.
I'm kind of confused, you avoid Dexos gen1? Meaning you use oils that are not Dexos1 approved, because they do not protect as well as non-Dexos1 oils?
Just curious because in my "fleet" I could care less if it's Dexos approved, maybe the Matrix would be the only one I'd consider relevant to needing the Dexos approval, but even that may be a moot point.
Originally Posted By: FlyPenFly
Okay actually this is a lot of propaganda for Amsoil but I actually really admire how well Castrol Edge with Ti and Valvoline Synpower do. They're cheap off the shelf oils you can get at Walmart for less than half the price of boutique oil but outperform Redline in things like TEOST. They also do really well overall in general. While they're not usually the best, they land favorably in almost all the tests. IMO, the ball bearing test is nearly useless as a measure of anything inside an ICE.
What the heck is up with Redline at TEOST?? I guess it achieves it's low NOACK by just turning solid instead?
The cost comparison chart at the end seems like total nonsense to me.
I avoid dexos1 if possible as TEOST precudes some very good antiwear compounds to achieve a pass - so - A Clean turbo bearing at hot shutdown and a seized engine. Not a compromise I'm willing to make. Somehow BP's Magnetec seems to get good power performance and a clean motor at the same time.
MAGIC!
Try QSUD 10w30 VS 5w30 the 10w is a absolutely stunning performer in a NA motor. It is NOT Dexos.
I'm kind of confused, you avoid Dexos gen1? Meaning you use oils that are not Dexos1 approved, because they do not protect as well as non-Dexos1 oils?
Just curious because in my "fleet" I could care less if it's Dexos approved, maybe the Matrix would be the only one I'd consider relevant to needing the Dexos approval, but even that may be a moot point.
To answer my own question, this thread has a reply from Redline:
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/2995318/2
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/2995318/2
Originally Posted By: GMBoy
I don't pay attention to these Amsoil "commercials" or "tests" nor use their products. I agree that Valvoline Synpower is a decent oil. I just choose to use Mobil 1 because I prefer it and it is usually cheaper in price than VL.
Yep you don't see Valvoline on sale often. But I did pick up two Jugs this summer for $22.47 and got it over Mobil 1 on Rollback for $22.88.
I don't pay attention to these Amsoil "commercials" or "tests" nor use their products. I agree that Valvoline Synpower is a decent oil. I just choose to use Mobil 1 because I prefer it and it is usually cheaper in price than VL.
Yep you don't see Valvoline on sale often. But I did pick up two Jugs this summer for $22.47 and got it over Mobil 1 on Rollback for $22.88.
At our local Wally mart, Mobil 1 is $22.78/5 qt jug and Valvoline is $25.78. I choose M1 but is not available either Valvoline or Pennzoil. WM is inconsistent with their stock and according to the store manage who knows me says the homeless living in the area have been stealing them.
4WD
$50 site donor 2024
Got M1 0w40 for 22-something today
Originally Posted By: Dumc87
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Originally Posted By: FlyPenFly
Okay actually this is a lot of propaganda for Amsoil but I actually really admire how well Castrol Edge with Ti and Valvoline Synpower do. They're cheap off the shelf oils you can get at Walmart for less than half the price of boutique oil but outperform Redline in things like TEOST. They also do really well overall in general. While they're not usually the best, they land favorably in almost all the tests. IMO, the ball bearing test is nearly useless as a measure of anything inside an ICE.
What the heck is up with Redline at TEOST?? I guess it achieves it's low NOACK by just turning solid instead?
The cost comparison chart at the end seems like total nonsense to me.
I avoid dexos1 if possible as TEOST precudes some very good antiwear compounds to achieve a pass - so - A Clean turbo bearing at hot shutdown and a seized engine. Not a compromise I'm willing to make. Somehow BP's Magnetec seems to get good power performance and a clean motor at the same time.
MAGIC!
Try QSUD 10w30 VS 5w30 the 10w is a absolutely stunning performer in a NA motor. It is NOT Dexos.
I'm kind of confused, you avoid Dexos gen1? Meaning you use oils that are not Dexos1 approved, because they do not protect as well as non-Dexos1 oils?
Just curious because in my "fleet" I could care less if it's Dexos approved, maybe the Matrix would be the only one I'd consider relevant to needing the Dexos approval, but even that may be a moot point.
Ive recently run ( w/in last two years) Pennzoil SS Dexos1 5w30, Pennzoil HM 5w-30 , and QSUD 10w30- The 2 Shell products that were NOT dexos was preferred by my car and the snowblower. Just qualitative assessment.
You KNOW they had to back off on many earth metal compounds to pass the two teost rounds and they can be traditional anti-wear compounds like Moly. This includes the past GF-5 product lineup minus 0w20 where the Japanese industry wanted and exception in GF-5. It may be more at Viscosity with Dexos than lack of traditional antiwear adds. My Nissan engine likes a 30 close to the 20 grade upper margin.
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Originally Posted By: FlyPenFly
Okay actually this is a lot of propaganda for Amsoil but I actually really admire how well Castrol Edge with Ti and Valvoline Synpower do. They're cheap off the shelf oils you can get at Walmart for less than half the price of boutique oil but outperform Redline in things like TEOST. They also do really well overall in general. While they're not usually the best, they land favorably in almost all the tests. IMO, the ball bearing test is nearly useless as a measure of anything inside an ICE.
What the heck is up with Redline at TEOST?? I guess it achieves it's low NOACK by just turning solid instead?
The cost comparison chart at the end seems like total nonsense to me.
I avoid dexos1 if possible as TEOST precudes some very good antiwear compounds to achieve a pass - so - A Clean turbo bearing at hot shutdown and a seized engine. Not a compromise I'm willing to make. Somehow BP's Magnetec seems to get good power performance and a clean motor at the same time.
MAGIC!
Try QSUD 10w30 VS 5w30 the 10w is a absolutely stunning performer in a NA motor. It is NOT Dexos.
I'm kind of confused, you avoid Dexos gen1? Meaning you use oils that are not Dexos1 approved, because they do not protect as well as non-Dexos1 oils?
Just curious because in my "fleet" I could care less if it's Dexos approved, maybe the Matrix would be the only one I'd consider relevant to needing the Dexos approval, but even that may be a moot point.
Ive recently run ( w/in last two years) Pennzoil SS Dexos1 5w30, Pennzoil HM 5w-30 , and QSUD 10w30- The 2 Shell products that were NOT dexos was preferred by my car and the snowblower. Just qualitative assessment.
You KNOW they had to back off on many earth metal compounds to pass the two teost rounds and they can be traditional anti-wear compounds like Moly. This includes the past GF-5 product lineup minus 0w20 where the Japanese industry wanted and exception in GF-5. It may be more at Viscosity with Dexos than lack of traditional antiwear adds. My Nissan engine likes a 30 close to the 20 grade upper margin.
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